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Thread: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

  1. #21
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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Something that has a value of a dollar is not worth eighty thousand dollars. Thats like executing someone for going one mile over the speed limit. I hope an appeals court tosses out the fines.That is ridiculous. If you went and shop lifted from the dollar tree they wouldn't fine 80,000 for each piece of merchandise taken. Considering the fact illegal downloading is not theft(since the owner is not deprived of his or her property) it makes this even more ridiculous.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    1)

    3) What makes you say it will get thrown out on appeal?
    A moment of sanity perhaps? 24 99 cent songs is the case. 1.9 mill must be the judges bonus from the music company.
    Thank you

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Wait, you're telling us that the company is getting the money?
    Yes. This was a civil lawsuit between private parties.

    The story on CNN says "fined" because CNN is a bunch of mouthbreathers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And $500 would be OK for illegally downloading 24 songs as well. $1.9 million, on the other hand, is ridiculous.

    Would you fine someone $1.9 million for throwing a bag of McDonald's out of their car window? After all, the point is to deter. Maybe we should skip the fines and go directly to execution.
    No, because far more people are caught littering than are punished for filesharing. Proportionally, I'd bet it works out similarly.

    And I guess this is where your JD and my MBA clash. If it isn't cost-effective for a company to sue, that sounds like a good rationale for NOT suing...not a good rationale for imposing ridiculous fines on the offender.
    So a party should be able to violate the rights of another party simply because it's not a huge deal? Say that the penalty for shoplifting was that you just had to say sorry - why would companies even stay open for business?

    The purpose of these laws is to deter people from conduct where the actual damages are small individually, but huge in the aggregate.


    And you think illegal music downloads are "really egregious"? So egregious that they warrant a fine 80,000 times larger than the value of the songs?
    Of course not, and I don't think littering is $500 egregious either. But that's not the purpose of the law.

    Then fine her $1 per song in compensatory damages and $10 per song in punitive damages, for a total of $264.
    Then you will have a system where the companies will effectively have no recourse whatsoever. See the shoplifting example above.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Yes. This was a civil lawsuit between private parties.
    So this isn't about deterrence, this is about damage.

    If that same woman stole 24 $1 candy bars, and had to pay that store 1.9M in damages, you don't see where there would be a problem?
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-19-09 at 02:10 AM.

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Something that has a value of a dollar is not worth eighty thousand dollars. Thats like executing someone for going one mile over the speed limit. I hope an appeals court tosses out the fines.That is ridiculous. If you went and shop lifted from the dollar tree they wouldn't fine 80,000 for each piece of merchandise taken.
    No, but if you shoplifted $100 worth of something 3 times, you could get life in prison.

    LOCKYER V. ANDRADE

    Which sounds more egregious?

    And aren't you one of those people who is a huge fan of 3 strikes laws?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So this isn't about deterrence, this is about damage.
    This is about a private party suing to protect their rights to their property, and an $80,000 award gets everybody up in arms.

    If the record company had just blown off her head with a shotgun, I wonder if some people would be more supportive.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So this isn't about deterrence, this is about damage.

    If that same woman stole 24 $1 candy bars, and had to pay that store 1.9M in damages, you don't see where there would be a problem?
    If a million people were getting away with the theft of candy bars for every one person who got sued over it, I wouldn't have the slightest problem with such a verdict.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This is about a private party suing to protect their rights to their property, and an $80,000 award gets everybody up in arms.

    If the record company had just blown off her head with a shotgun, I wonder if some people would be more supportive.
    The punishment needs to fit the crime.

    I know that and I'm not in law school, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If a million people were getting away with the theft of candy bars for every one person who got sued over it, I wouldn't have the slightest problem with such a verdict.
    Then you're part of the problem.

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    Re: Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This is about a private party suing to protect their rights to their property, and an $80,000 award gets everybody up in arms.

    If the record company had just blown off her head with a shotgun, I wonder if some people would be more supportive.
    No one stole anything nor did anyone copy anything worth 1.9 million dollars. This make as much sense as awarding a plaintiff your house because you stepped on a blade of grass on his lawn.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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