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Thread: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

  1. #51
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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    A judge can be more easily paid off than a jury.

    Also, it's difficult to isolate a judge from certain aspects of the case whereas juries can be. What happens in mistrials? The same judge gets the case?

    This is seriously effed up.

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    A judge can be more easily paid off than a jury.

    Also, it's difficult to isolate a judge from certain aspects of the case whereas juries can be. What happens in mistrials? The same judge gets the case?

    This is seriously effed up.
    you do know we don't live in the dark ages over here, there are systems to prevent and facilitate everything you commented on right?
    PeteEU

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    you do know we don't live in the dark ages over here, there are systems to prevent and facilitate everything you commented on right?
    While I agree with this re continental Europe, at least in the core states, the OP is indeed a bad thing for the English legal system and its history of legal precedents. It's a regression, not an enlightened advance, in their context. It's merely a high-handed statement that the judiciary no longer regards the rights of the Rabble as worthy of their expense and time. The results could easily be what has happened in the U.S., where some 35% of the prison population is doing time for crimes they never committed, simply for not having the economic resources to defend themselves in court properly, while the local, state, and Federal prosecutors have effectively unlimited resources; since most of these prosecutors use their office as means up the political ladder, they are most concerned about their conviction rates, not guilt or innocence.
    Last edited by Picaro; 06-20-09 at 09:03 AM.

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That being said, I still think juries are mostly comprised of morons,.

    Yes, but they are SUPPOSED to be made up of one's peers.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    That being said, I still think juries are mostly comprised of morons,.
    May be true, but that is reflection of poor citizenship on the part of those who aren't 'morons' who do anything they can to avoid jury duty, merely because it's inconvenient for self-centered assholes. It's self-inflicted problem caused by current American cultural failures, not a reason to throw out jury trials.
    Last edited by Picaro; 06-20-09 at 09:09 AM.

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    fyi Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    It's funny going thru this thread and reading the post it dawned on me that no one actually read the OP if some of you have then you might get the reasoning for this un-usual trial.

    So I suggest you all go and read the article and then make you comments. In this case the Judge(s) are doing the correct thing under the 2003 Criminal Justice Act.

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    It's funny going thru this thread and reading the post it dawned on me that no one actually read the OP if some of you have then you might get the reasoning for this un-usual trial.

    So I suggest you all go and read the article and then make you comments. In this case the Judge(s) are doing the correct thing under the 2003 Criminal Justice Act.
    I read it, and I addressed the primary issue in my post above, as did several other posters. What is it you consider as the point being missed ?

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Of course, they're not "machines" (like people wanted them to be just after the French revolution), but still...there are lots of rules that ensure that he is not arbitrary.
    - the laws contain the minimum and maximum sentence, so he can't condemn someone to death because he stole a car
    - he has to give a motivation for his sentence
    - if the condemned thinks that the sentence is too harsh, he can appeal the judgement and another judge will handle his case
    We have the exact same thing. The laws here prescribe particular ranges of punishments for each crime. The jury simply decides whether the person is guilty or not, and the judge handles the sentencing. The judge also has to explain the sentence. If the defendant thinks its too harsh, he can appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And yet you have things like grand juries that are held in secret, and your whole appeal system is without juries.
    Neither grand juries nor appeals courts issue convictions, so I don't see the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Grand juries are secret. The accused is usually not informed that they are being held and almost never informed about the basis for why they are being held.
    ?

    Who is being "held"? Grand juries meet as part of the investigatory process. Should the cops be forced to give you a phone call to let you know they're thinking about arresting you for dealing drugs?

    Also if I remember right, cases like divorce, custody cases.. all without juries.
    That's because they're more administrative and are better suited to being heard by a judge. There's no possibility of jail.

    It is not like murder cases are not going by jury...
    This is a huge armed robbery case, not some petty shoplifting. The penalties are probably quite similar to those for murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Yes, but they are SUPPOSED to be made up of one's peers.
    So I get a jury of lawyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    It's funny going thru this thread and reading the post it dawned on me that no one actually read the OP if some of you have then you might get the reasoning for this un-usual trial.

    So I suggest you all go and read the article and then make you comments. In this case the Judge(s) are doing the correct thing under the 2003 Criminal Justice Act.
    Yes, we're aware of that. The argument is over whether the underlying law is a good idea.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And yet you have things like grand juries that are held in secret, and your whole appeal system is without juries.
    The U.S. has the most elaborate appeals system on the planet... you're welcome lmfao

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    Re: A trial .... without a Jury? First time in UK history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Picaro View Post
    where some 35% of the prison population is doing time for crimes they never committed, simply for not having the economic resources to defend themselves in court properly,
    Can i ask what your basing these stats on?

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