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Thread: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    No we didn't he was in power long before the U.S. got involved in the situation to keep Mossadeq from succeeding in his coup deta.
    He was not. He was put in power by a British - American coup against his own father. When Mossadeq wanted to nationalize the oil industry, British and especially American interests were in grave danger. The Shah "fled" Iran and with the help of loyal military and the CIA, Mossadeq's government was taken out of the picture. After that places like the Iranian foreign ministry and oil ministry were run by the US government.
    Ya if you're completely insane and believe SAVAK to be less brutal than say any Communist, Islamist, or Fascist regime in the history of the world, such as, the very same Communist regimes whom with Mossadeq was aligning and emulating.
    They were brutal as hell and feared by everyone. They made Saddam's regime look like amateurs.

    You do know that the living standards of Iranians were never higher than under the Shah right?
    and so what? I aint defending the present regime one bit, but you seem to claim that the life under the Shah was so much better, free and without risk.. it was not.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    I think it was about time that the U.S.A. stopped getting its nose into other countrie's internal affairs.
    Fine then can we nationalize all foreign investments? Can we lock all foreign assets in U.S. run banks? Can we take all of our loans, grants, and foreign aid with us when we leave? Can we end all immigration into our country? Can we cancel all Visa permits and begin mass deportation of non-U.S. citizens? Can we withdrawal from the UN? Can we impose huge tariffs on foreign goods? Can we renege on all foreign debt? Can we deconstruct all U.S. owned assets on foreign territory as we go?

    The U.S. does just fine in a protectionist isolationist stance, however, the global economy will go down in flames. Have fun with the Chinese, perhaps they'll be more benevolent than we.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-17-09 at 09:11 AM.

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    He was not. He was put in power by a British - American coup against his own father.
    Try again slick it was a British-Soviet sponsored coup, it was U.S. threat of nuclear war with the Soviets that ended the Soviet occupation of Iran.

    When Mossadeq wanted to nationalize the oil industry, British and especially American interests were in grave danger.
    Try again slick, the U.S. had no oil assets in Iran at the time of the nationalization.

    The Shah "fled" Iran and with the help of loyal military and the CIA, Mossadeq's government was taken out of the picture. After that places like the Iranian foreign ministry and oil ministry were run by the US government.
    Yes we sponsored the counter-coup against Mossadeq.

    They were brutal as hell and feared by everyone. They made Saddam's regime look like amateurs.
    Really where are the mass graves? The Baathists made SAVAK look like quire boys.

    However, according to more recent research by a political historian of the era, Ervand Abrahamian, deaths numbered in the dozens rather than the thousands under the SAVAK, far fewer than the several thousand prisoners are estimated to have been killed in the Islamic Republic that followed. While some prisoners during the Shah's era were tortured, prisoners' letters were much more likely to use words such as "boredom" and "monotony," to describe their confinement than "fear," "death," "terror," "horror," and "nightmare" (kabos), the common descriptors found in letters of prisoners of the Islamic Republic. [24]

    SAVAK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and so what? I aint defending the present regime one bit, but you seem to claim that the life under the Shah was so much better, free and without risk.. it was not.
    It wasn't free but Mossadeq wasn't exactly a bastion of liberalism either.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-17-09 at 08:54 AM.

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Fine then can we nationalize all foreign investments? Can we lock all foreign assets in U.S. run banks? Can we take all of our loans, grants, and foreign aid with us when we leave? Can we end all immigration into our country? Can we cancel all Visa permits and begin mass deportation of non-U.S. citizens? Can we withdrawal from the UN? Can we impose huge tariffs on foreign goods? Can we renege on all foreign debt? Can we deconstruct all U.S. owned assets on foreign assets as we go?
    No, no, yes, no, no, yes, no, no, yes

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    The manner in which he says it.
    As of now he is negative not positive about the USA's role in the world and that is harmful.
    It's not our concern what goes on in Iranian elections. Let them sort it out. I'm sure you would have been real supportive if the Europeans "meddled" in our election in 2000.

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Alright, back up your claims with a credible source.
    Claim 1:

    In the midst of World War II in 1941, Nazi Germany began Operation Barbarossa and invaded the Soviet Union, breaking the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This had a major impact on Iran as the country had declared neutrality in the conflict.[2]

    That year British and Soviet forces invaded and occupied Iran, forcing Reza Shah to abdicate. His son, Prince Mohammad Reza Pahlavi replaced his father on the throne on 16 September 1941. It was hoped that the younger prince would be more open to influence from the pro-Allied West, which later proved to be the case.

    Subsequent to his succession as Shah, Iran became a major conduit for British and, later, American aid to the USSR during the war. This massive supply effort became known as the Persian Corridor and marked the first large-scale American and Western involvement in Iran, an involvement that would continue to grow until the successful revolution against the Iranian monarchy in 1979.

    Mohammad Reza Pahlavi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Claim 2:


    However, according to more recent research by a political historian of the era, Ervand Abrahamian, deaths numbered in the dozens rather than the thousands under the SAVAK, far fewer than the several thousand prisoners are estimated to have been killed in the Islamic Republic that followed. While some prisoners during the Shah's era were tortured, prisoners' letters were much more likely to use words such as "boredom" and "monotony," to describe their confinement than "fear," "death," "terror," "horror," and "nightmare" (kabos), the common descriptors found in letters of prisoners of the Islamic Republic. [24]

    SAVAK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Claim 3:

    Achievements

    The Shah made major changes to curb the power of certain ancient elite factions by expropriating large and medium-sized estates for the benefit of more than four million small farmers. In the White Revolution, he took a number of major modernization measures, including extending suffrage to women, much to the discontent and opposition of the Islamic clergy, the participation of workers in factories through shares and other measures, the improvement of the educational system through new elementary schools and literacy courses set up in remote villages by the Imperial Iranian Armed Forces. The latter step was called "Sepāh e Dānesh", "Army of Knowledge". As part of the White Revolution, the Armed Forces were engaged in infrastructural and other educational projects throughout the country ("Sepāh e Tarvij va Ābādāni") as well as in health education and promotion ("Sepāh e Behdāsht"). Moreover, he instituted exams for Islamic theologians to become established clerics. As a further step, in the seventies the governmental program of a free of charge nourishment for children at school ("Taghzieh e Rāigān") was implemented. Under the Shah's reign, the national Iranian income showed an unprecedented rise.

    In the field of diplomacy, Iran realized and maintained friendly relations with Western and East European countries as well as the state of Israel and China and became, especially through the close friendship with the United States of America, more and more a hegemonial power in the Persian Gulf region and the Middle East. The suppression of the communist guerilla movement in the region of Dhofar in Oman with the help of the Iranian army after a formal request by Sultan Qaboos was widely regarded in this context. As to infrastructural and technological progress, the Shah continued and developed further the policies introduced by his father. As part of his programs, projects in several technologies, such as steel, telecommunications, petrochemical facilities, power plants, dams and the automobile industry may be named.

    In terms of cultural activities, international cooperations were encouraged and organized, such as the Shiraz Festival of Arts. Many Iranian students were sent to and supported in foreign, especially Western countries and the Indian subcontinent. The Aryamehr University of Technology was established as a major new academic institution.[25] [26] [27]


    Mohammad Reza Pahlavi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    No, no, yes, no, no, yes, no, no, yes
    Well then I think we'll continue to meddle to insure our national interests.

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Well then I think we'll continue to meddle to insure our national interests.
    And we'll continue to have terrorist problems as those groups insure their interests

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Fine then can we nationalize all foreign investments? Can we lock all foreign assets in U.S. run banks? Can we take all of our loans, grants, and foreign aid with us when we leave? Can we end all immigration into our country? Can we cancel all Visa permits and begin mass deportation of non-U.S. citizens? Can we withdrawal from the UN? Can we impose huge tariffs on foreign goods? Can we renege on all foreign debt? Can we deconstruct all U.S. owned assets on foreign territory as we go?

    The U.S. does just fine in a protectionist isolationist stance, however, the global economy will go down in flames. Have fun with the Chinese, perhaps they'll be more benevolent than we.
    Trading with a foreign country is one thing and deciding who rules it is another.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
    To understand does not mean to support or to excuse

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    Re: Obama refuses to 'meddle' in Iran

    The best way to insure a favorable result in the Iranian election is to stay out of it.

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