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Thread: Letterman- Apology take 2

  1. #121
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And as I said in another thread...

    I'm sure Reverend has never once, ever, had an impure thought about a female who he later found out (or hell, DIDN'T find out but was the case, but he did poor fact finding) was underage...or else he'd have to be a pedophile by his logic that it is not intent but simply the end result that defines what something is.



    Will you cut it out.



    You are strawmanning.


    If he had come out the instant he found out he goofed and realized it was a 14 year old, and apologized. That would be one thing.


    Where did I call ANYONE a pedophile.



    I never made this argument once.
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    In which case, he'd know it was the 14-yo in front of him and would walk away.

    Try a better analogy.



    See zyph's post, apparently its sometimes hard to tell. The analogy is apt.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Where did I call ANYONE a pedophile.

    I never made this argument once.
    Quote the reverend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You are strawmanning.

    I didn't say you called someone a pedophile, I'm saying using the same logic you're using on Letterman.....that because he and his writing staff made an assumption, didn't think to double check things, and thus made a classless joke against a target they weren't intending that made the joke even worse that he somehow intentionally was making "a rape joke"....then you would have to consider anyone that makes an assumption about a girls age, doesn't double check it, and makes a classless sexual thought or comment in regards to them are actually making a pedophilia joke/thought if the person in question is actually underage, despite them thinking that wasn't the case at the time.

  4. #124
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Quote the reverend.




    I didn't say you called someone a pedophile, I'm saying using the same logic you're using on Letterman.....that because he and his writing staff made an assumption, didn't think to double check things, and thus made a classless joke against a target they weren't intending that made the joke even worse that he somehow intentionally was making "a rape joke"....

    I never held this position. In fact if you review my conversation with Dr. Patrick, there would be no confusion on your part sir.


    Here is my position again.


    I think the writers and lettrman did not due thier due dilligence in researching the facts before making a tasteless joke they thought was about bristol at a yankee game. When it came to light that it was willow and not bristol, they immediatly should have apologized.

    The fact is, the joke was about the 14 year old, whether they like it or not. And when it came to light thats how many read it, instead of immediatly doing the right thing and apologizing they went on the attack initially only later after pressure did he apologize.


    The jokes even about an 18 year old were abhorrent and classless.


    And I would feel the same exact way about an 18 year old/15 year old obama daughter, clinton daughter, etc.





    then you would have to consider anyone that makes an assumption about a girls age, doesn't double check it, and makes a classless sexual thought or comment in regards to them are actually making a pedophilia joke/thought if the person in question is actually underage, despite them thinking that wasn't the case at the time.

    This is not my position.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    He shouldn't have caved and apologized. My respect meter goes down now.

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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    II think the writers and lettrman did not due thier due dilligence in researching the facts before making a tasteless joke they thought was about bristol at a yankee game. When it came to light that it was willow and not bristol, they immediatly should have apologized.
    Agree completely with you here. I think Letterman and his writers were idiots who did a horrendous job of researching. They were typical comedy writers, not news reporters, who probably didn't think past "The famous Palin daughter is Bristol, Palin had a daughter at the game, Bristol got Pregnant, lets make a joke about Bristol getting Pregnant at the game"

    Letterman's half asses apology initially was just that, half assed, though it did acknowledge he wasn't make the joke about Willow I believe.

    The fact is, the joke was about the 14 year old, whether they like it or not. And when it came to light thats how many read it, instead of immediatly doing the right thing and apologizing they went on the attack initially only later after pressure did he apologize.
    No, its not. The Fact is, the joke ended up refering to the 14 year old. For it to have been "about" the 14 year old it would've needded to be created with said 14 year old in mind. You seem to believe it is so, which how you seem to believe that boggles my mind, I however believe it was "about" Bristol. I however have stated how I can understand how people could read it that way, INITIALLY, until they took time to actually look at the situation logically instead of from emotional or hyper partisan lens. I also stated I can FULLY understand how a parent, whose the only one LEGITIMATELY closely connected with this will be more prone to over react that some random person on a message board. And I also believe that Letterman is extremely classless and it doesn't surprise me he didn't apologize because, while it could've been read that way, he felt he didn't mean it that way so why should he have to apologize...becuase he's a bit of a dick.

    The jokes even about an 18 year old were abhorrent and classless.
    Without question, and I've said such over and over again. As have MOST of the people on the left that have been participating in these threads...they, like me, just have issues with people misrepresenting what the joke was to score political points.

    Think of it like a hate crime thing.

    White guy punches black guy cause black guy was hitting on his girlfriend. I have no problem going "Wow, that's wrong, you don't punch a guy".

    Black Guy's friends then all start saying "Its a hate crime, its a hate crime, its a hate crime" based on EXTRMELEY specious evidence that it was a white guy hitting a black guy.

    At that point, I start going "Wow, you all are over reacting. No its not, stop being dishonest."

    This does not mean I AGREE with the white guy hitting the black guy, I don't. But the over reaction, in my mind, makes the other side just about as bad as they're essentially admitting the original thing wasn't that bad so they had to try and make an even bigger deal out of it.

    That's what's happening here.

    If the hyper partisans and emotionally charged people on the Right were going "That was a classless and abhorent attack, and he should be ashamed of himself for not checking his facts better to find out that he accidently slandered Willow, along with Bristol, by aiming it in context at Bristol while mistakenly causing it in practice to seem to target Willow."

    But its not, they're mostly going

    He made a joke about rape, he's making jokes about raping kids, he was talking about child molestation, he was making light of statutory rape, etc etc. All of which implies he was intentionally and willfully attempting to target Willow.

    The large amount of you are no different than the black guy that screams "hate crime" to try and make a situation worse based on little logical evidence.

    And I would feel the same exact way about an 18 year old/15 year old obama daughter, clinton daughter, etc.
    And I don't believe you. Not about you thinking it classless and abhorrent, but the fact you'd still be droning on about the "rape" thing. I don't believe you for a moment. I think you'd be one to give a "pat pat" it was classless response, while then telling those on the left that were over exaggerating it that they were being illogical and over exaggerating and trying to make a case out of nothing.

    This is not my position.
    Except it basically is.

    Evidence that it was likely Willow? He talked about the daughter at the baseball game, and Willow as at the baseball game.

    Evidence that it was likely Bristol? Bristol is the most famous Palin daughter, the one most often talked about and thought of. Bristol is the one known for being pregnant. Bristol is of legal age making it a pregnancy joke, classless but at least not insinuating illegality as it would have to be with Willow. Letterman does not have a history of making jokes about pedophilia, underage sex, or other such things.

    Sorry, I can't fathom how someone can think the people that prepared that joke were honestly, in any way, making it with Willow Palin in mind. Which means the only way you can say that it was them trying to make a "joke about rape" is that the intent doesn't matter at all, only the result, and therefore if that's the case then if you have a sexual thought about a girl that's underage without knowing she's underage then you're a pedophile because its the result, not the intent, that matters.

  7. #127
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    I don't like Letterman because he has a dark cynical side that enjoys throwing occasional daggers even to his guests. His opinion to me is useless. He will forever be bitter knowing he is second best and it kills him as he has admitted in the past.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Agree completely with you here. I think Letterman and his writers were idiots who did a horrendous job of researching. They were typical comedy writers, not news reporters, who probably didn't think past "The famous Palin daughter is Bristol, Palin had a daughter at the game, Bristol got Pregnant, lets make a joke about Bristol getting Pregnant at the game"

    Letterman's half asses apology initially was just that, half assed, though it did acknowledge he wasn't make the joke about Willow I believe.

    Good we can put this part aside. We agree. Though I would say they heard daughter and just assumed. incorrectly.


    The fact that they thought it was bristol, is only slightly less abhorrent.


    No, its not. The Fact is, the joke ended up refering to the 14 year old. For it to have been "about" the 14 year old it would've needded to be created with said 14 year old in mind. You seem to believe it is so, which how you seem to believe that boggles my mind, I however believe it was "about" Bristol. I however have stated how I can understand how people could read it that way, INITIALLY, until they took time to actually look at the situation logically instead of from emotional or hyper partisan lens. I also stated I can FULLY understand how a parent, whose the only one LEGITIMATELY closely connected with this will be more prone to over react that some random person on a message board. And I also believe that Letterman is extremely classless and it doesn't surprise me he didn't apologize because, while it could've been read that way, he felt he didn't mean it that way so why should he have to apologize...becuase he's a bit of a dick.


    Wait, thin about it. The joke was supposed to be about bristol, but due to thier failure, it was INDEED percieved to logically be about Willow.


    He needed to apologize no matter which daughter it was about. That said, The fact that it was as spoken, about willow, regardless of intention, made this joke a joke about statutory rape.




    Without question, and I've said such over and over again. As have MOST of the people on the left that have been participating in these threads...they, like me, just have issues with people misrepresenting what the joke was to score political points.

    Think of it like a hate crime thing.

    White guy punches black guy cause black guy was hitting on his girlfriend. I have no problem going "Wow, that's wrong, you don't punch a guy".

    Black Guy's friends then all start saying "Its a hate crime, its a hate crime, its a hate crime" based on EXTRMELEY specious evidence that it was a white guy hitting a black guy.

    At that point, I start going "Wow, you all are over reacting. No its not, stop being dishonest."

    This does not mean I AGREE with the white guy hitting the black guy, I don't. But the over reaction, in my mind, makes the other side just about as bad as they're essentially admitting the original thing wasn't that bad so they had to try and make an even bigger deal out of it.

    That's what's happening here.

    If the hyper partisans and emotionally charged people on the Right were going "That was a classless and abhorent attack, and he should be ashamed of himself for not checking his facts better to find out that he accidently slandered Willow, along with Bristol, by aiming it in context at Bristol while mistakenly causing it in practice to seem to target Willow."

    But its not, they're mostly going

    He made a joke about rape, he's making jokes about raping kids, he was talking about child molestation, he was making light of statutory rape, etc etc. All of which implies he was intentionally and willfully attempting to target Willow.

    The large amount of you are no different than the black guy that screams "hate crime" to try and make a situation worse based on little logical evidence.

    Nonsense. I have been clear, that I don't think he intended to make a rape joke but he did. And then he was an ass about it.

    You are calling people who were offended by this joke "hyper-partisan". What about the legion of lefties defending Letterman?


    How could we be the "hyper-partisan ones" when we have consistantly have stated that it does not matter who's daughters the joke was about. Obama's Bush Clintons', palin's, we would feel the same way?

    Hyperpartisanism has NOTHING to do with my arguments, it does have everything to do with many of the lefties here.





    And I don't believe you. Not about you thinking it classless and abhorrent, but the fact you'd still be droning on about the "rape" thing. I don't believe you for a moment. I think you'd be one to give a "pat pat" it was classless response, while then telling those on the left that were over exaggerating it that they were being illogical and over exaggerating and trying to make a case out of nothing.

    You can show me by researchin my posts where you arrive at this speculation.


    I have vehemently defended obama against the charge that he is not an American, Or that he is a Muslim for example.

    But feel free to prove your contention instead of challenging my credibility with nothing more than uselsell bloviating about feelings





    Except it basically is.

    Evidence that it was likely Willow? He talked about the daughter at the baseball game, and Willow as at the baseball game.

    Evidence that it was likely Bristol? Bristol is the most famous Palin daughter, the one most often talked about and thought of. Bristol is the one known for being pregnant. Bristol is of legal age making it a pregnancy joke, classless but at least not insinuating illegality as it would have to be with Willow. Letterman does not have a history of making jokes about pedophilia, underage sex, or other such things.

    Sorry, I can't fathom how someone can think the people that prepared that joke were honestly, in any way, making it with Willow Palin in mind. Which means the only way you can say that it was them trying to make a "joke about rape" is that the intent doesn't matter at all, only the result, and therefore if that's the case then if you have a sexual thought about a girl that's underage without knowing she's underage then you're a pedophile because its the result, not the intent, that matters.



    Your arguing that I think he made it about Willow purposefully,I have posted numerous times he did not. He did however make it about willow, this is fact.


    The jokes revolved around the daughter with palin in ny, the spitzer joke and the a-rod joke.


    He may not have intended it to be about willow, but it sure as hell was.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Good we can put this part aside. We agree. Though I would say they heard daughter and just assumed. incorrectly.
    I agree with that completely. Bristol is the more famous Palin daughter. They likely heard Palin daughter and immedietely figured Bristol, stupidly.

    The fact that they thought it was bristol, is only slightly less abhorrent.
    I agree

    Wait, thin about it. The joke was supposed to be about bristol, but due to thier failure, it was INDEED percieved to logically be about Willow.
    No.

    I think that it was supposd to be about Bristol, but due to their failure it made it reasonable to assume at first that it was about Willow. I think that once someone steps out of the emotional blaze it creates and looks at it logically its clear it WASN'T about Willow.


    He needed to apologize no matter which daughter it was about. That said, The fact that it was as spoken, about willow, regardless of intention, made this joke a joke about statutory rape.
    He did need to apologize. However, no, the joke was NOt a joke about statutory rape. No more than a comment about an underage girl, that you don't realize is an underage girl, is a "pedophilia comment".

    Nonsense. I have been clear, that I don't think he intended to make a rape joke but he did. And then he was an ass about it.
    You haven't been clear about that at all. You continually say he's making a rape joke, he made a rape joke. Either you think that intent doesn't matter, in which case see my pedophilia comment, or you think that intent does matter, which means you think he intended it to be about Willow.

    You are calling people who were offended by this joke "hyper-partisan". What about the legion of lefties defending Letterman?
    Please give me the "legion" of lefties defending Letterman? The majority I saw in the other thread actually were saying this was low brow and classless on his part, but were arguing against the "rape" bull**** (see my comments about hate crimes above). The few that weren't I most certainly did call hyper partisan. The other thread is in the basement so I won't link to my comments, but you can search it and see I was going after the people being stupid about this on BOTH sides.

    How could we be the "hyper-partisan ones" when we have consistantly have stated that it does not matter who's daughters the joke was about. Obama's Bush Clintons', palin's, we would feel the same way?
    No different than Hatuey saying he'd have "no problem" with it if it was Obama or Bush or Clinton's daughter. Not to mention, that requires people to believe a posters integrity.

    Hyperpartisanism has NOTHING to do with my arguments, it does have everything to do with many of the lefties here.


    Sure rev, sure. Always those mean evil lefties, and you're the shining example of everythings that's right in politics, the world, and this forum.



    Everytime you've defended Obama its generally in the same way that many on the left are doing in this thread. You defend the part that's indefensable, while latching onto anything even a smidge beyond that to try and defend. He's not a muslim...but its prefectly okay to call him Hussein and people shouldn't be called out on it. He's a U.S. Citizen......but anyone daring to say we shouldn't delve into his past and constantly discuss his upbringing is wrong. You do the same thing as the people in here with the Letterman thing are doing "Its classless what he said......but all you people calling it rape are over the top and being dishonest." You give a passing nod to the worthlessness of that which is indefensable and then spend the majority of your time trying to justify the rest of what you see is okay. In general, that's okay....except you, like many on the left that were in these threads, are subjective about it. When its the other guys, you go after the indefensable and then immedietely rationalize...when its your guys, you go after the indefensable and you go after the rationalizations.


    Your arguing that I think he made it about Willow purposefully,I have posted numerous times he did not. He did however make it about willow, this is fact.
    Nope. I'm arguing that either its not a rape joke because intent matters, or intent doesn't matter and thus the pedophilia example.

    He may not have intended it to be about willow, but it sure as hell was.
    Then you may not have intended to think a pedohilia thought if you think "Damn I'd like to get in that girls pants" without realizing the girls underage, but it sure as hell was pedophilia.

  10. #130
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    Re: Letterman- Apology take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No.

    I think that it was supposd to be about Bristol, but due to their failure it made it reasonable to assume at first that it was about Willow. I think that once someone steps out of the emotional blaze it creates and looks at it logically its clear it WASN'T about Willow.

    I actually think he and the writers simply did not care enough. He may not have meant it abot willow, but factually, due to his error, it was indeed about willow.



    He did need to apologize. However, no, the joke was NOt a joke about statutory rape. No more than a comment about an underage girl, that you don't realize is an underage girl, is a "pedophilia comment".

    I disagree. completley, and have no desire to go round and round. I have made my case you disagree, I don't see us convincing each other any differently.


    You haven't been clear about that at all. You continually say he's making a rape joke, he made a rape joke. Either you think that intent doesn't matter, in which case see my pedophilia comment, or you think that intent does matter, which means you think he intended it to be about Willow.




    I'll make it easy. If I saw an 18 year old girl that I said I wanted to "bang", and it turned out she was a 14 year old, it would indeed be a "pedophelic statement" one I would immediatly apologize for and explain how I thought she was of legal age.

    I would not get all aggro and be an ass about it and make sarcastic rude remarks about her mother.


    Big Difference.



    Please give me the "legion" of lefties defending Letterman? The majority I saw in the other thread actually were saying this was low brow and classless on his part, but were arguing against the "rape" bull**** (see my comments about hate crimes above). The few that weren't I most certainly did call hyper partisan. The other thread is in the basement so I won't link to my comments, but you can search it and see I was going after the people being stupid about this on BOTH sides.


    It's in the basement so you will have to find the posts yourself, but:


    Liz Peeps
    Pete E/U
    Will Rockwell
    Hazlnut
    The Jovial one
    Goldendog
    cai
    f107hypersabre



    And that's just a random sampling from like 5 pages of the 1st 50.






    No different than Hatuey saying he'd have "no problem" with it if it was Obama or Bush or Clinton's daughter. Not to mention, that requires people to believe a posters integrity.

    Are you again attacking my integrity? I don't know what is with you latley, but let me know if I read this wrong.








    Sure rev, sure. Always those mean evil lefties, and you're the shining example of everythings that's right in politics, the world, and this forum.


    Can we not reduce this debate into nonsense. This is not what I said, nor is it my position. There are plenty on both sides doing extreme things. I am not.



    Everytime you've defended Obama its generally in the same way that many on the left are doing in this thread. You defend the part that's indefensable, while latching onto anything even a smidge beyond that to try and defend. He's not a muslim...but its prefectly okay to call him Hussein and people shouldn't be called out on it. He's a U.S. Citizen......but anyone daring to say we shouldn't delve into his past and constantly discuss his upbringing is wrong. You do the same thing as the people in here with the Letterman thing are doing "Its classless what he said......but all you people calling it rape are over the top and being dishonest." You give a passing nod to the worthlessness of that which is indefensable and then spend the majority of your time trying to justify the rest of what you see is okay. In general, that's okay....except you, like many on the left that were in these threads, are subjective about it. When its the other guys, you go after the indefensable and then immedietely rationalize...when its your guys, you go after the indefensable and you go after the rationalizations.

    Show me where I am subjective. Quote and link please. I wont waste any more space on this attacking personal attack nonsense. Again I don't know whats up with you over the past few days, but, quite frankly I am getting tired of it.


    I have not laid into you and you partisan policing attack the righty game. But if you continue to attack my integrity, and my honesty, I will respond in kind. Come on. It's not neccesarry and rather innaccurate.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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