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Thread: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    While I certainly think the elections were rigged, I do not see why McCain, as a public official, would assert publicly that the elections were corrupt and a fraud, without given any proof or reason to say so other than Iranian protests.
    Several reasons:

    1. It's good Republican politics. Strikes a stand for democracy and free elections while simultaneously puts Dear Leader on the spot.

    2. It plays well to crowds here in the US. It's our congenital love of the underdog.

    3. It wasn't just rigged...it was badly rigged. (Note to Ahamenijad: your opponent always wins his home district, and never win by more than about a 55-45 split; then the doubt breaks in your favor.).

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Several reasons:

    1. It's good Republican politics. Strikes a stand for democracy and free elections while simultaneously puts Dear Leader on the spot.

    2. It plays well to crowds here in the US. It's our congenital love of the underdog.

    3. It wasn't just rigged...it was badly rigged. (Note to Ahamenijad: your opponent always wins his home district, and never win by more than about a 55-45 split; then the doubt breaks in your favor.).
    Not always true on the last point. Gore lost Tennessee and in the Primaries, Edwards lost in North Carolina. Though if the election win were closer, then you are right, many would not question. It was a horrible attempt.

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Several reasons:

    1. It's good Republican politics. Strikes a stand for democracy and free elections while simultaneously puts Dear Leader on the spot.

    2. It plays well to crowds here in the US. It's our congenital love of the underdog.

    3. It wasn't just rigged...it was badly rigged. (Note to Ahamenijad: your opponent always wins his home district, and never win by more than about a 55-45 split; then the doubt breaks in your favor.).
    A 30% point "win" announced just after midnight in a country that does paper balloting which obviously are counted by hand since I do not belive that the Mullah Hullahs bought OCR equipment to electronically read the paper ballots is a dead give away.
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 06-15-09 at 10:38 PM.
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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Obama: Iranian voters' voices should be heard

    President Barack Obama on Monday said Iranian voters have a right to feel that their ballots matter and urged the investigation into vote-rigging allegations to go forward without additional violence.

    Obama said reports of violence that followed Iranian elections trouble him and all Americans. Peaceful dissent should never be subject to violence that followed weekend elections that gave President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a second term, he said.

    "It would be wrong for me to be silent on what we've seen on the television the last few days," Obama told reporters at the White House.

    Obama said he had no way of knowing whether the results are valid the United States, he noted, had no election monitors in the country but he added that it is important that the voters' choices be respected.

    Hundreds of thousands marched in central Tehran. Gunfire from a pro-government militia killed one man and wounded several others while the government cracked down on dissent. An Associated Press photographer saw at least one demonstrator killed and several others with what appeared to be serious injuries.

    The march came as Iran's most powerful figure, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, ordered an investigation into vote rigging against reform leader Mir Hossein Mousavi.

    "I am deeply troubled by the violence I've been seeing on TV," Obama said.

    Obama said he would continue to engage the Middle East nation, even if Ahmadinejad's re-election is upheld.

    Obama said the United States must work with the country to prevent a nuclear arms race in the region. He emphasized that he disagrees with Ahmadenijad's "odious" beliefs and said the United States has serious disagreements with Iran's foreign policy.

    Yet, he said, the United States has a broader interest in stopping Iran from developing nuclear weapons or exporting terrorism.

    The president was careful not to wade too deeply into Iran's domestic politics, recognizing "sometimes, the United States can be a handy political football." He said it's up to Iran to determine its own leaders but that the country must respect voters' choice.

    However, Obama praised protesters and the nation's youth who question results that showed Ahmadinejad winning a second term in a landslide.

    "The world is watching and is inspired by their participation, regardless of what the ultimate outcome of the election was," he said.

    Obama's remarks came at the end of an Oval Office meeting with Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi.
    [url=http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20090613/US.US.Iran
    [SIZE="1"](article covers pretty much al his coments on it at the press conference..including -the USA bits.

    Just diplomese baloney talk..
    Last edited by Triad; 06-15-09 at 10:26 PM.

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I thought the 80's was running protesters over with tanks. The 70;s was shooting protesters.
    With our luck, the 00's will be about torturing protesters.

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    [url=http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20090613/US.US.Iran
    [SIZE="1"](article covers pretty much al his coments on it at the press conference..including -the USA bits.

    Just diplomese baloney talk..

    You're wrong. He said a few key things that needed to be said:

    bama: Iranian voters' voices should be heard

    President Barack Obama on Monday said Iranian voters have a right to feel that their ballots matter and urged the investigation into vote-rigging allegations to go forward without additional violence.

    Obama said reports of violence that followed Iranian elections trouble him and all Americans. Peaceful dissent should never be subject to violence that followed weekend elections that gave President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a second term, he said.

    "It would be wrong for me to be silent on what we've seen on the television the last few days," Obama told reporters at the White House.

    Obama said he had no way of knowing whether the results are valid the United States, he noted, had no election monitors in the country but he added that it is important that the voters' choices be respected.

    Hundreds of thousands marched in central Tehran. Gunfire from a pro-government militia killed one man and wounded several others while the government cracked down on dissent. An Associated Press photographer saw at least one demonstrator killed and several others with what appeared to be serious injuries.

    The march came as Iran's most powerful figure, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, ordered an investigation into vote rigging against reform leader Mir Hossein Mousavi.

    "I am deeply troubled by the violence I've been seeing on TV," Obama said.

    Obama said he would continue to engage the Middle East nation, even if Ahmadinejad's re-election is upheld.

    Obama said the United States must work with the country to prevent a nuclear arms race in the region. He emphasized that he disagrees with Ahmadenijad's "odious" beliefs and said the United States has serious disagreements with Iran's foreign policy.

    Yet, he said, the United States has a broader interest in stopping Iran from developing nuclear weapons or exporting terrorism.

    The president was careful not to wade too deeply into Iran's domestic politics, recognizing "sometimes, the United States can be a handy political football." He said it's up to Iran to determine its own leaders but that the country must respect voters' choice.

    However, Obama praised protesters and the nation's youth who question results that showed Ahmadinejad winning a second term in a landslide.

    "The world is watching and is inspired by their participation, regardless of what the ultimate outcome of the election was," he said.

    Obama's remarks came at the end of an Oval Office meeting with Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi.
    That was exactly what needed to be said, and what I EXPECTED would be said.

    There were 3 things he needed to get across:

    1. We're watching...2. Iranians should decide (not the mullahs)...and 3. peaceful dissent should not be subjected to violence.

    Beyond that, there is nothing that can be said at this point in time. And, the U.S. could also make things worse by appearing to tamper with their election.

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    Just diplomese baloney talk..
    Just calling a spade a spade, "Triad," if he blew bubbles made of gold, and used them to pay down our national deficit, you'd find something to take shots at. Partisan hackery is not attractive, from either side.

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    Oh Obama replied finally..about half an hour ago.....no speech just a reply to a press question while talking with the Italian leader.

    President Obama on Protests in Iran: "It Would Be Wrong for Me to Be Silent" - Political Punch

    Wishy washy BS leaving the door open for him to appease Iran.


    Obama stance is simple..its the same one he has on everything---
    'How do I look and how do I keep my declared position in this..I don't care about anything else.'
    He is throwing away the US leadership position in the world.

    UK, France , and Germany have taken harder lines with Iran.......
    If Obama says that the elections are a fraud, Khamenei and Ahmadinejad have a pretext by which they can crack down on the protesters, which are suddenly an American conspiracy to overthrow the government.

    Furthermore, it would not be prudent for Obama to say anything just yet. After Iran's power struggle sorts itself out, the United States is still going to need to talk to whomever is on the other side of the table. If it's Mousavi-Rafsanjani-Khatami, great. Obama can always call the old regime illegitimate when it becomes more apparent that the reformers are going to prevail, and no one would ever accuse him of not being on their side. If it's Ahmadinejad-Khamenei, that sucks, but the United States is still going to need to talk to them. It will be a lot more difficult to do so if A) they think Obama is trying to engineer their downfall, and B) Obama has publicly called their regime illegitimate.

    Of course, none of these points matter if you don't WANT the United States to pursue negotiations, and prefer to sabotage negotiations by any means necessary. But for those of us in the reality-based community, it would be imprudent for Obama to take sides yet.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-16-09 at 12:55 AM.
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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    One year....March 2010

    That is his deadline.

    He will "never notice" it and he won't back it up when the day comes.


    One year..I expect action or I expect Obama is a joke from each and every one of you.

    /////////////////

    the reality-based community,
    The one that ignores a decade of EU negotiations?
    The one that ignores Russian and even Chinese efforts?
    The one that ignores Arab State efforts?
    The one that ignore Irans declaratiosn of intent?
    The one in 2003 was saying Iran was the REAL ENEMY but in 2006-7 whern Iran told the EU to go to hell decided Iran was a Democracy beign badmouthed by the USA and Jews?




    Reality is they have called your bluffs and here many of you are trying to sell the same sorry ass bluffs while excusing the weakest president in foreign affair since Carter.
    Oh but then that real reality not Obamaland reality.


    ///////////////

    US should at minimal vocally support the efforts of anyone to overthrow the regime of Iran. Not to mention the That Obama barely mentioned democracy past "we dunno what to make of it" in favor of a photo-op someday while not AT LEAST vocally backing up any possible plan someone might have for a coup by saying the USA will stand behind those who seek Freedom and Democracy in Iran.
    He failed..

    The Europeans stood up..the USA whined.



    Message to those in Iran who are even thinking of pushing this to a revolution is clear. Whether some of you wish to admit it or not....

    "THE USA IS NOT WITH YOU"


    Horrible message to send around the world.
    But that is Obama may he drown in it.
    Last edited by Triad; 06-16-09 at 01:58 AM.

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    Re: McCain: Iran Election "Corrupt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    The one that ignores a decade of EU negotiations?
    The one that ignores Russian and even Chinese efforts?
    The one that ignores Arab State efforts?
    The one that ignore Irans declaratiosn of intent?
    The one in 2003 was saying Iran was the REAL ENEMY but in 2006-7 whern Iran told the EU to go to hell decided Iran was a Democracy beign badmouthed by the USA and Jews?
    This is what I'm talking about. You don't WANT negotiations to succeed. So forgive me if I don't trust your motives when you call for Obama to condemn the Iranian government at this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad
    Reality is they have called your bluffs and here many of you are trying to sell the same sorry ass bluffs while excusing the weakest president in foreign affair since Carter.
    Oh but then that real reality not Obamaland reality.


    ///////////////

    US should at minimal vocally support the efforts of anyone to overthrow the regime of Iran. Not to mention the That Obama barely mentioned democracy past "we dunno what to make of it" in favor of a photo-op someday while not AT LEAST vocally backing up any possible plan someone might have for a coup by saying the USA will stand behind those who seek Freedom and Democracy in Iran.
    He failed..

    The Europeans stood up..the USA whined.
    Again, you don't WANT negotiations to succeed. So you call for US backing of a coup, which would jettison any hopes of negotiations if it failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad
    Message to those in Iran who are even thinking of pushing this to a revolution is clear. Whether some of you wish to admit it or not....

    "THE USA IS NOT WITH YOU"
    The Iranian people know perfectly well that the United States and their government are at odds with one another, and have been for 30 years. Do you take them for complete idiots? Furthermore, what makes you think that American involvement in Iran's election would be desirable or beneficial to either country?

    Let the process sort itself out. Chances are, the establishment will restore order...and our government would be in a more difficult position if it calls their regime illegitimate and then had to negotiate with them. And if by some good fortune, Iran has itself a Green Revolution, that's even better. We'll have negotiating partners who are interested in good relations with the rest of the world and in reforming their own system of government.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-16-09 at 02:17 AM.
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