Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 102

Thread: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post


    Hark at you. Sorry to give you the bad news. There is no way to support all freedoms.
    Sorry to give you the good news, but no one has the freedom to commit murder, not even pregnant broads that say "oops".

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    You either support the right of the racist to refuse the right of earning a living or having a roof over their head or you support the right of everyone to have equal rights based on their needs and abilities.
    1) Everyone has the equal right to be as racist as they damn well please.

    2) Everyone has the equal right to associate with whomever wishes to associate with them.

    3) No one has the right to force their association on others.

    4) Everyone has the equal right to seek employment that provides the quality of life they desire.

    5) Therefore, no one has the right to force themselves upon an employer who doesn't want them.

    This is called "freedom". No one is being forced to accomodate the wishes of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    The same can be said for any kind of discrimination based on the persons gender, sexual preference or religion.
    You mean what I just said can be so applied. I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Anti discrimination laws came in so that everyone living in our society can have an equal freedom to go after what they want.
    They already had the freedom. The laws you are referring to deny people freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    When discrimination is no longer a problem it will not matter whether we have or do not have these laws.
    Don't know about jolly old England, but racism is no longer an issue in the United States.

    Time to ditch the quota laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    You are simply asking for the right to be discriminatory against others
    No, I'm stating the people should not be denied their freedom to live their lives as they please.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    and you are calling that freedom not recognising it interferes with anothers freedom.
    Nope, it doesn't interfere with the freedom of others in any way, since the freedom to impose upon others has never been a legitimate freedom. In more honest societies, that "freedom" is called the "master-slave relationship".

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    However I believe the whole point of your posts to me was a bit of flame baiting.
    No, just pointing out that you don't understand what true individual freedom is, which explains your eagerness to impose your limits on it.

  2. #62
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
    Apocalypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    17,217

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    What good would that do you, since you're the one lacking comprehension.
    Your lack of comprehension has made you believe I am lacking comprehension.
    Fight it.
    Only where the excercise of those freedoms harms others.
    Thanks for proving my point.
    So if we are limiting the freedoms of people whose freedoms harm others, the same should be done with parties that harm others' freedoms.
    Discrimination is anothe word you can search for, it's right after "democracy", and before "fascist".
    Obviously you've never opened a dictionary before, as there are quite a lot of words between democracy and discrimination.
    The state owns that property, does it not?

    Did I not say the owner of property gets to make the decisions on who has access to it?

    So what's your problem?
    I don't believe citizen and human rights relate to states as well.
    You can't do a comparison between the two.
    The state will limit the freedom of movement if it desires to do so, and will remain a democracy.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  3. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Your lack of comprehension has made you believe I am lacking comprehension.
    No. I comprehend perfectly.

    I'm god, after all.

  4. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Seen
    07-18-09 @ 04:56 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,041

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Stupid move which any political neophyte will be able to use to their advantage.

    Yeah shut me up because I'm a white in the United Kingdom! That's right don't let me speak because why you fear what I say! Oh sure let the immigrant decide the lives of the natives but don't let the natives decide their own lives!

    etc etc.........Tailor made

    Only good thing is least IMO the UK is the least likely European State with a far right in some form of power to see that far right become THE power. But then who knows..

  5. #65
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,092

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Aren't you being discriminatory on grounds of political belief?
    No. We are talking about a piece of paper that states certain extraordinary conditions to become a member. Remove those conditions and there is no problem. They are still allowed to believe whatever they want, and accept or deny whoever they want. If a black guy is stupid enough to ask for a membership then it is in their right to deny it.

    We do not allow in Europe that ads for work state that you want a certain type of person based on sex, religion or what not. It is illegal for example to advertise for a female nurse. That you will only accept a female nurse is up to you but in advertising for the job you are not allowed to discriminate. This also goes for race and religion and other factors. But when it comes to who gets an interview and who gets the job, then it is 100% up to you and you can be as much racist, anti-semitic and xenophobic as you want in finding your new employee.

    I don't think anyone should be forced to curtail their political beliefs just because some think it un-PC or whatever.
    No one is forcing them to curtail their political beliefs. Everyone knows the BNP is a racist neo nazi organisation and would remain so if it did not have that sentence in its constitution.

    And I wish people on the right would stop using the PC slur at every turn something suddenly does not agree with them.. it is getting old. It has nothing to do with political correctness but about human decency. We fought the nazi's, abandoned slavery and freed women and suddenly it is "PC" to have rules that cements those positions in our laws and society? give me a break.
    PeteEU

  6. #66
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,089

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Interesting outcry in support of a party that has no interest in supporting all of England's people. Just the white ones. I mean support in the sense that so many here seem to be okay with them holding a place in government. I for one don't mind them being banned. Personally any party that claims to stand only for any particular race group is against the very foundation of democracy and whether or not you let them run you're in a contradiction. I mean we can talk about the New Black Panther Party all we want. But what are they other then a bunch of ignant niggas running around screaming on Sean Hannity's show? In America we're safe because for the most part no member KKK and NBPP has anywhere near close to a chance in hell of being elected to even an alderman position. But in Europe and Asia? How many times have anti-democratic parties been elected in Europe and Asia? FFS we're seeing it in Venezuela. I use to believe that it was anti-democratic to ban anti-democratic parties. But now? It's not that big of a deal really. And the world seems to agree with me :

    Israel :

    Israel bans Arab parties from running in upcoming elections - Haaretz - Israel News

    Arab faction delegates in the CEC walked out of the hall before the vote, shouting, "this is a fascist, racist state." As they walked out, CEC deputy chairman MK David Tal (Kadima) and the Arab delegates pushed each other and a Knesset guard had to intervene and separate them.

    The CEC voted overwhelmingly in favor of the motions, accusing the country's Arab parties of incitement, supporting terrorist groups and refusing to recognize Israel's right to exist.
    Turkey :

    Political parties in Turkey - All About Turkey

    FAZILET (The Virtue Party): In April 1997 the coalition government led by Mr. Erbakan fell apart under pressure of the military and the party was banned in January 1998 by the Constitutional Court.
    Spain :

    ETA's banned political party to lend support to Chavez & Castro | www.vcrisis.com

    A few Spanish media outlets report today that Batasuna, the banned political party of the Basque terrorist group ETA, is to lend support and pay homage to Cuban dictator Fidel Castro and his oil rich sidekick Hugo Chavez in the coming summit of heads of state and governments of Latin America to take place in the city of Salamanca October 14/15.
    Thailand :

    A Political Party Banned in Thailand - TIME

    Thailand's Constitutional Tribunal on Wednesday announced the landmark dissolution of the country's former ruling party, further unsettling a nation that has suffered more than a year of political chaos that culminated in last September's military coup.
    Haiti :

    Haiti's biggest party banned from Senate race | Reuters

    PORT-AU-PRINCE, Feb 17 (Reuters)- Haitian authorities say they have barred the country's most popular political party from Senate elections, a move some fear could spark unrest.

    Haitian electoral officials said The Lavalas Family Party failed to submit papers from former President Jean-Bertrand Aristide authorizing the party's list of Senate candidates. Aristide is living in exile in South Africa.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-16-09 at 05:48 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #67
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    10-29-17 @ 02:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,684

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post

    1) Everyone has the equal right to be as racist as they damn well please.
    I can think of much more important rights to fight for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post

    but racism is no longer an issue in the United States.
    It clearly is an issue. It's number one on your list of rights.

    As for it being resolved in the US. I very much doubt that.

    Report details black-white wealth inequality

    .....

    Marc H. Morial, Urban League president, said the black middle class’ tenuous hold on prosperity reflects racial discrimination in housing and other wealth-building arenas — both historically and now — and suggests that today’s civil rights battles are largely economic.

    “Since the 1960s, one of the success stories is the growth of the African-American middle class — those who are college-educated, participating throughout the American economy and growing in stature and influence,” Morial said. “But what we face is that these successes of 40 years are being eroded. The danger is the great backslide that can occur.”
    Report details black wealth inequality - Race & ethnicity- msnbc.com

    I am imagining your stance comes from this US worry
    Racism is a very touchy subject for some, as issues concerning free speech and Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights come into play. Some people argue that it is just words. Others point out that these words can lead to some very dire and serious consequences (World War II being an example).
    Racism ? Global Issues

    "UN Report points to "stark racial disparities" in U.S. institutions, including its criminal justice system"

    Racism in America

    Institutional racism in the US health system

    Institutional Racism in the US Health Care System

    It could go on and on. I can only imagine what you mean is that you accept racism and are not bothered about it. In that way it is no longer an issue to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post


    Nope, it doesn't interfere with the freedom of others in any way, since the freedom to impose upon others has never been a legitimate freedom. In more honest societies, that "freedom" is called the "master-slave relationship".


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No, just pointing out that you don't understand what true individual freedom is, which explains your eagerness to impose your limits on it.
    I have generally found people when speaking about freedom to talk about the difference between freedom to and freedom over. Discrimination laws belong to freedom to.

  8. #68
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I can think of much more important rights to fight for.
    The right to think what you want and say what you want is actually very important. Mankind has not fought for centuries so that only the speech that we like can be free; they have fought for all speech to be free.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    We do not allow in Europe that ads for work state that you want a certain type of person based on sex, religion or what not. It is illegal for example to advertise for a female nurse. That you will only accept a female nurse is up to you but in advertising for the job you are not allowed to discriminate.
    Well, what you're saying then is that Europeans don't care about substance, it's the symbolism that's important.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And I wish people on the right would stop using the PC slur at every turn something suddenly does not agree with them.. it is getting old. It has nothing to do with political correctness but about human decency.
    Ummmm....you yourself just stated that Europeans don't care if discrimination is happening, so long is it's not shouted from the roof tops. That's the essence of political correctness, controlling the expression of ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    We fought the nazi's, abandoned slavery and freed women and suddenly it is "PC" to have rules that cements those positions in our laws and society? give me a break.
    It certainly denies people freedom to forbid them from being honest and up front about what they want and will do.

    And to get on a related subject, how is freedom enhanced by passing laws banning certain types of speech, with criminal penalties for violating those bans, such as the silly bans on Holocaust denial?

  10. #70
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    10-29-17 @ 02:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,684

    Re: Bill will ban 'white only' BNP.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The right to think what you want and say what you want is actually very important. Mankind has not fought for centuries so that only the speech that we like can be free; they have fought for all speech to be free.
    I do appreciate that but the right to express your hatred which is there for no other reason than the person's race, something they have no control over is putting a very high value on the right to hurt and humiliate and abuse.

    It does not take into consideration at all the feelings of the person experiencing this. It does not value that person only the right of the one who wishes to abuse.

    I suspect this is a 'freedom over' freedom in that the racist person will no doubt feel superior to the person s/he is being racist too.

    Just saying something racist here is not against the law but at the moment there is strong social disapproval of people being racist. It would appear from what I hear that is not the same in the US.

    The real issue though which this was based on was on discriminating against people based on their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation - in for instance work.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-16-09 at 03:31 PM.

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •