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Thread: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

  1. #141
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I'm not coming down on anyone because I have indulged it myself...but I have no clue how a discussion about a disturbed young man became a discussion of the merits of free range beef versus factory farm beef.
    Because, silly, everyone knows young men who prefer factory farm beef all become serial killers!
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Because, silly, everyone knows young men who prefer factory farm beef all become serial killers!
    Really? Because looking back on it, I see the point of derailment being some drivel about how a singular young man with emotional disturbances mutilating the neighborhood's cats is somehow comparable to consumption of meat by society at large.

  3. #143
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Really? Because looking back on it, I see the point of derailment being some drivel about how a singular young man with emotional disturbances mutilating the neighborhood's cats is somehow comparable to consumption of meat by society at large.
    Well, there happens to be a certain Peter Singer acolyte on the forum who buys that stuff.
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  4. #144
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    If these were his own cats, I'd see nothing wrong with it. Conversely, if he did the same thing to other people's livestock, I'd have a problem.
    Is this one of the things you were joking about? *I* can't tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, you do not see argumentum ad populum emerging again. Your pseudo intellectual posturing blinds you.
    Actually, your response was a perfect definition of an argumentum ad populum. You defended the moral status of a practice simply because of majority approval of it, as far as I could tell. If you meant to convey a different sentiment, please share it with us.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    There is, among some, a legitimate concern over factory farms which is why many go out of their way and wallets to eat meat that lived a good life vs eating meat that was stressed, medicated, and lived a torturous existence prior to consumption.
    I'm glad there is; I'm certainly aware of it. I'm merely questioning why there's a strong condemnation of this individual even among those who are relatively apathetic to similar suffering (because of similar or greater sensory capacities), that livestock undergo during preparation for human consumption. The answer is because there's an emotional detachment that exists between people and such animals, while none exists between the same people and domesticated pets. However, that's not a rational defense, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Well, there happens to be a certain Peter Singer acolyte on the forum who buys that stuff.
    Jeremy Bentham, actually. Peter Singer's portrayed as the demon at the center of the storm because he's the most famous applied ethicist and possibly the most famous philosopher in the world and his Animal Liberation played a significant role in that movement, but his role is exaggerated somewhat. That said, I'll agree with him on some things, but as an Australian, he is of course to be appropriately mocked.

  5. #145
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Actually, your response was a perfect definition of an argumentum ad populum. You defended the moral status of a practice simply because of majority approval of it, as far as I could tell. If you meant to convey a different sentiment, please share it with us.
    No, it is not. That's what you desperately want to portray it as.

  6. #146
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, it is not. That's what you desperately want to portray it as.
    Did you not defend the broad act of slaughter on the grounds that it was an accepted human cultural institution, while the violent mutilation of cats was not? That's a precise example of an argumentum ad populum; you defended the ethical status of a behavior on the grounds of its relative popularity.

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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Did you not defend the broad act of slaughter on the grounds that it was an accepted human cultural institution, while the violent mutilation of cats was not? That's a precise example of an argumentum ad populum; you defended the ethical status of a behavior on the grounds of its relative popularity.
    No. I didn't argue against your irrelevant point of slaughterhouses and this disturbed child being comparable at all.

    I've no interest in explaining to you the difference between apples and hubcaps.

    The closest I came to sincerely addressing your irrelevance was in stating that I was concerned for this child's lack of empathy and his distance from social norms.

    Now from here on, you are talking to yourself if you intend to address drivel such as our diets, human consumption of animal products, etc in relation to a disturbed young man mutilating neighborhood pets.

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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I'm glad there is; I'm certainly aware of it. I'm merely questioning why there's a strong condemnation of this individual even among those who are relatively apathetic to similar suffering (because of similar or greater sensory capacities), that livestock undergo during preparation for human consumption. The answer is because there's an emotional detachment that exists between people and such animals, while none exists between the same people and domesticated pets. However, that's not a rational defense, of course.
    You are correct that the grocery store has largely detached folks from the process of hunting and respecting the meat that they eat. The horror of many factory farms is not on the radar while strolling thru Safeway. Plus there's tons of ignorance, avoidance, laziness, and denial involved on a large scale.

    However that issue is completely different from a deranged 18 year old molesting and killing random neighborhood pets.

  9. #149
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Is this one of the things you were joking about? *I* can't tell.
    that's the way I like it!

    Honestly though, I was 1/2 joking, 1/2 serious.

    If he killed his own cats humanely and ate them I wouldn't have a problem. If he killed other people's livestock without permission in any fashion, I'd be bothered.

    It's not simply a matter of killing his own cats, as the humane way of doing it is a real factor, albeit not the only one or even the main one.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 06-16-09 at 07:52 PM.
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    Re: 18-year old charged in Florida cat mutilations

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    [drivel]

    Now from here on, you are talking to yourself if you intend to address drivel such as our diets, human consumption of animal products, etc in relation to a disturbed young man mutilating neighborhood pets.
    Despite the fact that I keep asking, you continue to fail to offer a morally relevant distinction between the two. The factor of widespread societal approval of the former is not an especially relevant one; if it was a traditional cultural practice to mutilate cats for sport, and that was adopted and practiced on a wide scale, that would not affect its ethical status.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    You are correct that the grocery store has largely detached folks from the process of hunting and respecting the meat that they eat. The horror of many factory farms is not on the radar while strolling thru Safeway. Plus there's tons of ignorance, avoidance, laziness, and denial involved on a large scale.

    However that issue is completely different from a deranged 18 year old molesting and killing random neighborhood pets.
    It's completely different only in the sense that you maintain the same emotional detachment. There is no morally relevant difference where it counts; there is a similar or greater level of pain and suffering endured by many animals that undergo the process of factory farming or similar forms of slaughter. You attempt to draw a morally relevant difference based on different motivations; in the case of cat mutilation, you refer to a mental derangement on the part of the suspect, whereas you infer that there's a distinction that exists because of a conscious effort to prepare animals for human consumption on a wide scale, one that has undergone government approval and regulation.

    However, this distinction does not affect the morally relevant factor of the animals' suffering. There is greater suffering endured by livestock subject to the process of factory farming than an elk felled by a single shot of a man who hunts for sport. Now, the former is based on a wide-scale and government-approved effort to prepare animals for human consumption, while the latter is based on a single individual's enjoyment of killing animals. The latter might seem motivated by a more dubious desire, but the reality is that greater suffering is undergone by animals in the former example. The psychological condition of the killers is thus not so pertinent as the suffering undergone by the animals; the latter is the morally relevant factor.

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