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Thread: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

  1. #11
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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Where do you find laws dictating what individuals can do in the privacy of their homes?
    On what planet is marriage only in the home?

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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Perhaps obvious Child is a libertarian liberal?

    Is that possible?
    Correction. Realistic Libertarian. Liberal and Conservative ideas depend on the circumstance as to their value. Raising taxes during a recession is a dumb **** idea, but lowering taxes during an inflationary period is also a dumb **** idea. An intelligent person does not adhere to any specific political ideology just because it's their ideology.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    On what planet is marriage only in the home?
    Huh? My example was that social conservatives have pushed government into our private lives, which contridicts a fiscal/governmental/libertarian belief in smaller government. It wasn't directly related to marriage per se, just the notion of social conservatism does not favor smaller government.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    On what planet is marriage only in the home?
    Earth.

    Unless you're homeless.

    Or, as George Carlin would say "Houseless" because home is really a state of mind.

    But 'home' in the abstract is what he meant, and I think you knew that. So, your clever little comeback wasn't so much clever as it was little.

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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Huh? My example was that social conservatives have pushed government into our private lives, which contridicts a fiscal/governmental/libertarian belief in smaller government. It wasn't directly related to marriage per se, just the notion of social conservatism does not favor smaller government.
    No one's telling gays that they can't do something that's in the privacy of their own home

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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Earth.
    Erm, no, try again

    A marriage is in the hospital when your spouse is ill.
    A marriage is in your place of work when you want your spouse covered in your insurance plan.

    I mean, the list goes on and on.

  7. #17
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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I only stated my opinion:
    I know. I'm not dumping on you as if you were stating a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    My reasoning is firstly, that marriage was originally and is still in many cases a religous institution,
    That would be extremely difficult to establish, since marriage has been used in every culture since before written history.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    which would seem to get into the whole seperation of church and state issue.
    If the government were to force churches to perform marriages against their tenets, this would be true. However, as it would be courthouses that perform marriages, not churches, the separation of church and state is not threatened.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    And, secondly, that removing government from marriage would eliminate much of the argument over it.
    Conversely, so would allowing gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    No laws regarding it would mean no political debate.
    Well, yes. Removing government, and therefore politics, would indeed remove political debate. However, you would only see the issue picked up just as strongly, if not more so, by theological debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Let the various religions decide internally if they want to allow gay marriage. It's a religious question anyway.
    See, I'm just not aware of any pro gay marriage position that states that various religions must accept gay marriage within their own churches.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Or should be, and would be, if the financial element (tax reductions for a married couple?) were not involved.
    Much has been made of the financial aspect of marriage, but it's more than that. Marriage is a symbol throughout civilization of the ultimate bond between two people . Everything else, such as "civil unions," are watered down concepts which is why a lot of gay people aren't settling for it. And frankly, if marriage were only a religious institution, no atheists would be getting married. Of course, you might say that atheists in this regard are misguided, but that would be highly presumptuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Personally, I think government involvement should be in the form of a legal agreement only, not a legal agreement with religious overtones.
    I am not personally familiar with courthouses performing marriages with religious overtones, unless you're interpreting the marriage itself as connoting the religious overtone.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    But, that is just me ranting.
    No prob.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Regarding your question as to what I think the odds are of this happening?
    Very little.
    The world is always changing. Sometimes these changes make me uncomfortable, sometimes not. In the end all I can do to deal with it is determine how concretely or abstractly they effect me. If they affect me personally (and perhaps negatively), I decide if I need to adapt or fight back. If abstractly, I adjust my outlook and roll with it. Not only will governments continue to perform marriages, but gay marriage, nationally, is inevitable. People who were against gay marriage will need to adjust their outlook so that they don't feel their own marriages somehow mean less. I'm not trying to sound condescending, it's just that I genuinely see all this as inevitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    After all, it's a great topic to get elected with (from either side).
    True that.

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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Correction. Realistic Libertarian. Liberal and Conservative ideas depend on the circumstance as to their value. Raising taxes during a recession is a dumb **** idea, but lowering taxes during an inflationary period is also a dumb **** idea. An intelligent person does not adhere to any specific political ideology just because it's their ideology.
    Correction: statist.

    I'm tired of all these big government people on these boards calling themselves libertarians. It's a shame that the mods don't seem to care either.

    It's fine that you don't stick so dogmatically to your ideology, but when you find yourself on many positions (especially such important ones) to be completely at odds with the ideology that you claim to be, then maybe you're not really a part of that ideology. Just a thought.
    Last edited by phattonez; 06-15-09 at 02:17 AM.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Correction: statist.

    I'm tired of all these big government people on these boards calling themselves libertarians. It's a shame that the mods don't seem to care either.
    Wait...wtf do you expect a mod to do about this? What forum rule was broken?

    DP mods are not here to enforce factual accuracy. If you think you found a fault in someone's argument it's your job to point that out. That's why you're ****ing here.

    What would you expect a mod to do about this?

  10. #20
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    Re: NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Wait...wtf do you expect a mod to do about this? What forum rule was broken?

    DP mods are not here to enforce factual accuracy. If you think you found a fault in someone's argument it's your job to point that out. That's why you're ****ing here.

    What would you expect a mod to do about this?
    A little touchy tonight? How would you feel about an anarchist advocating a tax hike to pay for welfare and bailouts. You wouldn't call him an anarchist would you?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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