• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

B L Zeebub said:
I hope so, but he will do what he has to do.
Click to expand...

Surviving under the thumb of the Iranian Religious Police and the Revolutionary Guard, isn't surviving, it's like living like a scurrying cockroach. I will fight! I repeat it sir I will fight! As for me, give me liberty or give me death.
 
Last edited:
Agent Ferris said:
Surviving under the thumb of the Iranian Religious Police and the Revolutionary Guard, isn't surviving, it's like living like a scurrying cockroach. I will fight! I repeat it sir I will fight! As for me, give me liberty or give me death.
Click to expand...
Unless you're in Iran, this is not your fight.
 
Triad said:
I need to see bullets fly from the "reformers" or whomever to believe this has a chance at all of going beyond this.



Government shoots some people its right back to ["will lead to nothing but some bad times for some of those who took part." imo.
Click to expand...

I agree I have at the present time no reason to believe that the present situation will do anything other than let those in power know the people know what they have done.

I also have concern about your second point re the government shooting. I do not want to see anything similar to TS89 which would achieve nothing but death to those wishing change.

The Iranian people though have and are continuing to speak.
 
it's not like the tianmen. it's all over the country now.
 
Tiananmen was all over the country there where smaller demonstrations across China.

There wasn't the mass shootings as in the square itself..but alot of arrests and the like.
They then wiped it from history.
Gotta love the Commies.
 
Last edited:
youknowwho said:
it's not like the tianmen. it's all over the country now.
Click to expand...

My point was simply, I do not want to see people killed if it cannot achieve anything, but Triad was right there were protest in many areas of China.

Our reporters were saying yesterday it was really building momentum. Where do you see it going?
 
Last edited:
I have been thinking "FRAUD" since the results were announced. However, this article in today's Washington Post made me question it. I'm not saying there's no fraud, but this article has given me pause.

The Iranian People Speak

By Ken Ballen and Patrick Doherty
Monday, June 15, 2009

The election results in Iran may reflect the will of the Iranian people. Many experts are claiming that the margin of victory of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the result of fraud or manipulation, but our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.

While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.

Ken Ballen and Patrick Doherty - Polling in Iran Shows Real Support for Ahmadinejad
Click to expand...
 
aps said:
I have been thinking "FRAUD" since the results were announced. However, this article in today's Washington Post made me question it. I'm not saying there's no fraud, but this article has given me pause.
Click to expand...

The thought had crossed my mind that this could be possible. However according to the Telegraph

In the run-up to the campaign, polls had put both men neck-and-neck, with some suggesting that Mr Ahmadinejad was in for a shock defeat because of his poor economic performance and aggression to the West.
Click to expand...

Iran elections: revolt as crowds protest at Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's 'rigged' victory - Telegraph

Obviously the poll you presented said something quite different but that is not unusual with polls.

I know early Saturday morning the thing that made people sure it was rigged was because of the size of his majority. This, it seems to Mousavi's supporters, was totally unexpected.

Even the report you presented said that the people were wanting Changes like Mousavi was promising. It would seem a strange choice if that is so....but of course it is always possible.
 
Last edited:
alexa said:
The thought had crossed my mind that this could be possible. However according to the Telegraph



Iran elections: revolt as crowds protest at Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's 'rigged' victory - Telegraph

Obviously the poll you presented said something quite different but that is not unusual with polls.

I know early Saturday morning the thing that made people sure it was rigged was because of the size of his majority. This, it seems to Mousavi's supporters, was totally unexpected.

Even the report you presented said that the people were wanting Changes like Mousavi was promising. It would seem a strange choice if that is so....but of course it is always possible.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. It looks like an investigation will occur. It will be interesting to see what happens with this.

In about-face, Khamenei backs vote fraud probe

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei ordered the powerful Guardian Council to examine the allegations by pro-reform candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, who has claimed widespread vote rigging in Friday's election. The government declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner in a landslide victory.

It was a stunning turnaround for Iran's most powerful figure, who previously welcomed the results.

Fraud probe ordered into Iran vote - Iran- msnbc.com
Click to expand...
 
aps said:
I agree with you. It looks like an investigation will occur. It will be interesting to see what happens with this.
Click to expand...

That is interesting. From your link it appears they are doing the carrot and stick.

This is the carrot. Arrests, making communication difficult and forbidding rallys calling them sedition are the sticks.

I guess a lot will depend on whether the people believe the investigation is reliable or a whitewash.
 
Keep those riots going in Iran, the more the merrier.
 
I doubt those riots will lead to a revolution or anything.
The people of Iran will get tired from this in a few days,
and then life under the dictatorship will go back to normal.
 
Apocalypse said:
I doubt those riots will lead to a revolution or anything.
The people of Iran will get tired from this in a few days,
and then life under the dictatorship will go back to normal.
Click to expand...

These are unarmed civilians. There is a limit to what they can do!!

The situation seems to be continuing to become more volatile.

The students are apparently doing a sit in while armed guards are gathering outside.

People are going to the rally despite being warned that live ammunition may be used and apparently Ahmadinejad's supporters are also on the way there with sticks.

Our Foreign Secretary, David Milliband says the problem is around how the votes have been counted and I heard nothing about an investigation.

I found this link to a lot of videos. If you go further down you will find a lot of links to twitter sites of Iranians.

Iran after the Election - pictures from inside Iran
 
Tashah said:
Source: guardian.co.uk

The scale of the fraud committed here is simply astounding.
Click to expand...



Is there any actual evidence that voter fraud has happened or might have happened like voter registration fraud, videos of the same people voting in multiple polling locations,electronic voting machines that leave no paper trial,dumped ballots and etc? Or are these people just pissed that their guy lost so they are rioting with the hope that their government will be intimidated into seating the candidate the rioters want? I ask these questions because the only thing the article mentions is a bunch of people who are pissed off because their guy lost and the claims of a political analyst, which doesn't equal evidence of any fraud.
 
jamesrage said:
Is there any actual evidence that voter fraud has happened or might have happened like voter registration fraud, videos of the same people voting in multiple polling locations,electronic voting machines that leave no paper trial,dumped ballots and etc? Or are these people just pissed that their guy lost so they are rioting with the hope that their government will be intimidated into seating the candidate the rioters want? I ask these questions because the only thing the article mentions is a bunch of people who are pissed off because their guy lost and the claims of a political analyst, which doesn't equal evidence of any fraud.
Click to expand...
Well Khamenei has called for an investigation now. So either it'll be a whitewash, or they see something real that the opposition can prove.
 
Despite a ban from Iran's Interior Ministry, pro-Mousavi protestors demonstrated in Tehran today. Reuters reported:

Tens of thousands of supporters of Iran's defeated presidential candidate Mirhossein Mousavi gathered in downtown Tehran on Monday, defying an Interior Ministry ban.

Shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is great), they converged on Revolution Square, where the moderate former prime minister was expected to call for calm after two days of violent unrest in the capital since hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the victor in Friday's vote.
 
American said:
Well Khamenei has called for an investigation now. So either it'll be a whitewash, or they see something real that the opposition can prove.
Click to expand...

He has called for calm, so an "investigation" can be held. When that "investigation" discovers no wrongdoing, the results will quietly be announced to a now-calm electorate. Iran has learned much about how to rig an election in a democracy, they must be watching the US.
 
WillRockwell said:
He has called for calm, so an "investigation" can be held. When that "investigation" discovers no wrongdoing, the results will quietly be announced to a now-calm electorate. Iran has learned much about how to rig an election in a democracy, they must be watching the US.
Click to expand...
Are you for real?
The Iranians know how to rig an election?
The results were simply the opposite from what was shown in the polls, how is that so professional? :doh
 
Tehran looks like Los Angeles after a Rodney King verdict....except the citizens of Tehran may actually have cause.
 
Interesting video clip...Iran is a nation of bloggers:

[ame=http://vimeo.com/2139754]IRAN: A Nation Of Bloggers on Vimeo[/ame]

Having a blog or being on the internet, in and of itself, is a political statement in Iran.
 
Apocalypse said:
Are you for real?
The Iranians know how to rig an election?
The results were simply the opposite from what was shown in the polls, how is that so professional? :doh
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be professional if it is effective. Once the election is stolen, no amount of evidence will prevent the cheated candidate from appearing as a sore loser. Consider the 2004 presidential election:

In the crucial state of Ohio, we see Kerry with a steady lead all day. When the polls close, all eyes are on Ohio, and the unauthorized numbers on the internet have Kerry ahead by 2 points. Then CNN posts exit poll data showing Kerry up by a good 4 points. Somehow, Bush pulls off a mysterious 6 point gain and wins by 2 points.

Meanwhile, down in Florida, 1.6 million more people were voting for President than had done so in 2000, the year that Bush and Gore essentially tied. Exit polls showed more new voters were going for Kerry, as predicted, and far fewer voting for Nader this time. Not surprisingly, Kerry was slightly ahead all day and ended with a 2 point lead. But of course, Bush won. And not by one or two points, as he did in Ohio and New Mexico. In Florida, where vote-tallying machines have been seen counting backwards, Bush gained a full 7 points on his exit polls and beat Kerry by 5 points.
Click to expand...
Exit Polls and Voter Fraud: A User-Friendly Explanation
 
Stop tainting this thread with your off-topic, supercilious commentary. This is a thread about Iran, whose people are in the streets right now, chanting: "I will fight, I will die, I will get my vote back."

This is about people being beaten by riot police and being denied access to medical care. This is about people fighting and dying to get rights that you take for granted.

More news coverage from the Guardian, UK : Iran's disputed elections: the aftermath | News | guardian.co.uk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom