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Thread: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The mullahs themselves are split between first and second generations of the 1979 revolution.

    They are far from unified.

    Iran’s Power Struggle – tehranbureau

    Also, the reformists are also co-opting the faith in their struggle. Today's protests are religiously-based:

    Crowd masses for rally, Mousavi calls day of mourning | International | Reuters
    I don't fear moderate or modernist Islam, I'm glad they are continuing to embrace their religion. So long as it is not an extremist militant strain there is no issue. I think it helps provide a set of moral guidelines for many practitioners (I know this is disputed and I'll not go past this post with it so as not to derail).
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    For Lerxst:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8D7SYJVzqg]YouTube - An Open Letter From Iranians TO The World-Spread it World Wide[/ame]

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    As I said before, we should not have any illusions about the people’s movement as it currently exists. The current movement is limited and tied to Mousavi. The current movement is not yet class-conscious. The current movement has not yet drawn towards itself the mass of the entire people. The current movement is not yet lead by the advanced and class-conscious section of the working-class. These are all the real problems with the current movement. These are the problems we should be addressing, and these are the problems that will decide the fate of the movement.


    There is no doubt that the movement is progressing and that it is by itself dealing with these problems. Friday, before any such movement existed, there were hardly any chants that were anti-government. Saturday, the first mass demonstrations chanted “Death to the dictator!” but equally they chanted for Mousavi. Sunday the latter sentiment was toned down a bit, while the former increased due to Mousavi’s call for restraint [2]. Monday, the reverse happened due to Mousavi’s renewed calls for a re-election. Tuesday again Mousavi’s side grew given his increasing opposition. What can we deduce from this? Mousavi is clearly being pulled to the opposition side under pressure of the people’s movement. He’s bending but soon enough he will break. There is only so far you can bend as a supporter of the Iranian state when calls are being made for its overthrowing.

    See the full article
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I saw this earlier in the thread. I particularly like the part where he said "we do not expect you to fight our struggle, but to help us fight it."
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    As I said before, we should not have any illusions about the people’s movement as it currently exists. The current movement is limited and tied to Mousavi. The current movement is not yet class-conscious. The current movement has not yet drawn towards itself the mass of the entire people. The current movement is not yet lead by the advanced and class-conscious section of the working-class. These are all the real problems with the current movement. These are the problems we should be addressing, and these are the problems that will decide the fate of the movement.
    Your opinions here are in conflict with the vast majority of reports coming from Iran. First, this is about DEMOCRATIC REFORMS, not Mousavi as a person, and even Mousavi himself has acknowledged this. Secondly, those participating range from garbage collectors to university professors and healthcare workers.

    I want to clearly and explicitly state that YOU personally have a communist agenda for Iran that may or may not parallel what the Iranians want for themselves.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Your opinions here are in conflict with the vast majority of reports coming from Iran.
    Which opinions?

    First, this is about DEMOCRATIC REFORMS, not Mousavi as a person
    We have never claimed that it is about Mousavi as a person.

    Secondly, those participating range from garbage collectors to university professors and healthcare workers.
    We have never denied this, and agree with this statement entirely. See the post I have made here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    This is a lie. The WaPo article never said anything about who is in the streets in support of Mousavi, as the WaPo article is referring to a survey it took before the election was held. Many others are in the streets in support of Mousavi and/or against the dictatorship in general, and it includes people across the board, from workers to students to middle class liberals and beyond.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-17-09 at 02:06 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    The current movement is limited and tied to Mousavi.
    Wrong. The current movement is tied to democratic reforms.

    The current movement is not yet class-conscious. The current movement has not yet drawn towards itself the mass of the entire people.
    Wrong. The current movement is drawing from all classes, and from both rural and urban areas.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Wrong. The current movement is tied to democratic reforms.
    One does not exclude the other. The current movement is limited to democratic reforms in terms of demands, and Mousavi is widely seen as a prominent member of that movement. This is why we are still seeing mass support for him.

    Wrong. The current movement is drawing from all classes, and from both rural and urban areas.
    See my edit. You are again mistaken in understanding what is being stated.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    I for one want Democracy for Iran, not communism. However, if the people of Iran choose communism, that is their choice. However I don't think they will trade one dictatorial rule for another.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Updates:

    Confirmed:
    Iranian protesters are trying to maintain peaceful demonstrations, but, they are being infiltrated by gov't thugs who continually shout derogatory things, try to stir up violence. Remarkably, the protesters aren't falling for it and are maintaining their calm.

    Iran-State Police Force comfirms plain-clothes & black-masked militia are from Palestine & Lebanon, they have diff. orders.

    The soccer team removed their green wristbands during the second game. Not to "un protest" or anything, but to show Ahmidinejad, they would decide when and where.

    Unconfirmed:
    List of those killed (pretty reliable source): Revolution Martyrs Revolution in Iran

    Reports of police/guard wearing green headbands. Other reports claiming some have defected. These have been circulating since late last night, but so far are unconfirmed.

    News Agencies:
    From BBC, really good story, summing up: BBC NEWS | Middle East | Fresh rally takes place in Tehran

    Wow, un-confirmed, report of leak of documents proving the election was a fraud. This has been a rumor since saturday or sunday. This is the first picture. It was
    Election theft memo from Iran Interior Ministry (Authenticity NOT VERIFIED) #iranelection on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    I have no idea if this is an authentic document.

    If it is, it is a June 13, 2009 (Persian calendar 23 Khordad 1388)
    memo from the office of Iran's Interior Ministry to Supreme Leader Ali
    Khamenei.

    The memo informs Khamenei that the interior ministry announced a
    victory by Ahmadinejad in accordance with Khamenei's wishes. The memo
    says announcing an Ahmadinejad win is in the best interests of the
    nation.

    The chart that follows informs Khamenei of the vote's "real" results.

    It says 42 million votes were cast with
    with Mousavi getting 19,075,623 votes, Mehdi Karroubi getting
    13,387,104 votes, Ahmadinejad finishing a distant third with 5,698,417
    votes, and Mohsen Rezaee getting 3,754,218.

    (Persian-to-English translation by my father. He read the memo off my phone, so please forgive minor typos).
    This from the BBC RE the memo:
    6.15pm:
    Iranian filmmakers Marjane Satrapi and Mohsen Makhmalbaf just held a press conference in Brussels to say they have a document proving election fraud, Adnkronos news agency reports.

    The document, seen here, says that Mousavi won the election with 19m votes, with cleric Mehdi Karroubi coming in second and Ahmadinejad coming in third. Satrapi and Makhmalbaf said the document had come from the Iranian electoral commission, and is dated June 13, the day after the election.

    Adnkronos notes it cannot confirm the document's authenticity.
    From AP, harsh words about US:
    Iran accuses US of interference in election feud
    By ALI AKBAR DAREINI – 40 minutes ago

    TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran has accused the United States of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, alleging for the first time that Washington has fueled a bitter post-election dispute.

    A state television channel in Iran says the government summoned the Swiss ambassador, who represents U.S. interests in Iran, to complain about American interference. The two countries broke off diplomatic relations after the 1979 Islamic Revolution. An English-language state-run channel quoted the government as calling Western interference "intolerable."
    Well, there it is the first charge. Next will be the CIA charge......
    I am a Tiki Bar Tarte, do you really think you can Tango with me?!?
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