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Thread: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

  1. #351
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    We did it on our own, with the population split almost 50/50 pro and con against the revolution, for 3 years. Wait. Watch. Give them a chance. Perhaps they can do this without firing a single bullet.
    Not because we didn't want their support. Because they were unsure about their ability to maintain a war against England due to their economic issues. We sent Benjamin Franklin to France in 1776 seeking their direct support.

    Legitimate according to whom? If we get in the middle of this, we will strip their victory of legitimacy.
    I disagree, not if they ask us for it.
    THIS IS THEIR FIGHT. We have to let them fight it. Hopefully, by peaceful means.
    These riots are not the Velvet Revolution. Riots are not peaceful. Peaceful protests are peaceful. Burning cars, throwing stones, throwing molotov cocktails, beating policemen...these are riots and they are not peaceful.
    If, at some point, the leaders of this peaceful velvet revolution ask for help, I think we should be standing ready. BUT THEY AREN'T ASKING FOR OUR HELP RIGHT NOW.
    And that is what I'm suggesting. We need to be willing and ready to arm them to fight for their country when it escalates to that point. And you don't know that they are not asking us. We have had covert connections in Iran for some time. We don't know what they are asking for. Twitter and Youtube do not constitute the entirety of the communications coming from within Iran. I assure you that if they are asking for material support this will not be advertised by the opposition on the internet. It will be done covertly through the intelligence community.

    I don't know if I can be more clear on this, but the U.S. can't assist these people against their will. When I say we need to send them weapons, obviously there needs to be a desire to receive them. I think some people are being deliberately argumentative and simply taking the most literal interpretation of my words in order to criticize my position on this matter. "Well you didn't say 'if they want them' you just said we need to arm them, and you weren't specific so your idea is bad." Logically it stands to reason that there would be a receptive party on the other end of our offer of material support.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 06-17-09 at 12:14 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

  2. #352
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    We sent Benjamin Franklin to France in 1776 seeking their direct support.

    I don't know if I can be more clear on this, but the U.S. can't assist these people against their will. When I say we need to send them weapons, obviously there needs to be a desire to receive them. I think some people are being deliberately argumentative and simply taking the most literal interpretation of my words in order to criticize my position on this matter. "Well you didn't say 'if they want them' you just said we need to arm them, and you weren't specific so your idea is bad." Logically it stands to reason that there would be a receptive party on the other end of our offer of material support.
    If and when that occurs, I will be fully behind supporting the Iranian people in removing this totalitarian regime.

  3. #353
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If and when that occurs, I will be fully behind supporting the Iranian people in removing this totalitarian regime.
    Me too.

    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    In the spirit of Iranian freedom, let's join hands and sing kumbaya.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    In an ironic twist....Debate Politics is freezing every time I try to access this, and only this, thread. They've gotten to DP!

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    In the spirit of Iranian freedom, let's join hands and sing kumbaya.
    I don't see the Mullahs relinquishing one iota of power unless made to so by the barrel of a gun. They're killing people over there, their 2nd revolution may actually have begun.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In an ironic twist....Debate Politics is freezing every time I try to access this, and only this, thread. They've gotten to DP!
    It's cause this forum is a threat to tyrants!
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    I don't see the Mullahs relinquishing one iota of power unless made to so by the barrel of a gun. They're killing people over there, their 2nd revolution may actually have begun.
    I agree. My hope is that the barrel they are staring down belongs to a gun their own military is wielding. Further, I hope that the soldier wielding that gun isn't attempting to set up a junta, but supporter of the opposition and in favor of setting up a true Iranian democracy.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    I don't see the Mullahs relinquishing one iota of power unless made to so by the barrel of a gun. They're killing people over there, their 2nd revolution may actually have begun.
    The mullahs themselves are split between first and second generations of the 1979 revolution.

    They are far from unified.

    Iran’s Power Struggle – tehranbureau

    Also, the reformists are also co-opting the faith in their struggle. Today's protests are religiously-based:

    Crowd masses for rally, Mousavi calls day of mourning | International | Reuters
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 06-17-09 at 12:52 PM.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    From everything I read the population has outgrown the idea of the Guardian Council and strict theocratic rule. Change is in the air.

    If this succeeds, and I pray to God above that it does, I am going to be very interested in seeing how it affects the situations between Israel and Palestine/Syria/Lebanon.

    This could have a major ripple effect for many reasons.
    *insert profound statement here*

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