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Thread: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

  1. #281
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    ...
    Support them how?

    BY backing their efforts verbally and clearly as France and much of the EU has. Or like Represetatrive Pence has (http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058086567)

    ..not like the Obama USA has.


    If it goes past this by supporting them with weaponry intelligence etc.

    IOW supporting them as in supporting them for real in the real world instead of waxing poetic about idealistic BS on Twitter. Or worrying more about a photo op BSathon.




    That you guys even have to ask tells me your just looking for a way to say "Sitting on our asses is mighty fine" in nifty ways.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    BY backing their efforts verbally and clearly as France and much of the EU has. Or like Represetatrive Pence has (http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058086567)

    ..not like the Obama USA has.
    It is not prudent to call a regime illegitimate if it may survive and we may need to negotiate with it. If the protesters gain the upper hand, Obama can THEN take sides.

    American interference in Iranian politics is NOT desirable to anyone involved. The establishment would use it as a pretext to crack down on the protesters, the protesters would resent American involvement, and the United States would be more likely to have to negotiate with a hardline establishment. But that's exactly what you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad
    If it goes past this by supporting them with weaponry intelligence etc.
    Who is "them"? Last I checked, the protesters have neither a military nor an intelligence bureau. If there is a revolution, it almost certainly will not be in the form of a civil war. There is no reason to provide "intelligence" to an angry mob which probably knows more about the situation than our government does. That's just retarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad
    IOW supporting them as in supporting them for real in the real world instead of waxing poetic about idealistic BS on Twitter. Or worrying more about a photo op BSathon.

    That you guys even have to ask tells me your just looking for a way to say "Sitting on our asses is mighty fine" in nifty ways.
    The fact that you respond to simple questions with such hostility indicates that you know your views are idealistic and indefensible.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Could we please keep the actions of the American government out of this thread? There are a few threads open for that already, and I don't want to see this thread cluttered with it.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Here's another:


    Supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi try to calm down fellow demonstrators as they rescue a bloodied riot policeman (center) who was beaten during a protest in Valiasr Street in Tehran on June 13, 2009. (BEHROUZ MEHRI/AFP/Getty Images)


    A backer of Mir Hossein Mousavi helps evacuate an injured riot-police officer during riots in Tehran on June 13, 2009. (OLIVIER LABAN-MATTEI/AFP/Getty Images)

    Source
    See, that sort of stuff is touching, not being sarcastic.

    They can knock the guy down, and some of them (unfortunately not the ones who caused the bleeding wounds) can find it in their hearts to take their "enemy" and give them aid and treatment. Very humane.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    BY backing their efforts verbally and clearly as France and much of the EU has. Or like Represetatrive Pence has (http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058086567)
    France has a very different relationship with Iran than the U.S. does.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Iran Updates (VIDEO): Live-Blogging The Uprising

    Reports of arrests last night and today. They've arrested human rights attorneys and personnel.

    There's also reports of making the dead disappear and reporting vastly undercounted numbes of both dead and wounded.

    4:36 PM ET -- Then they came for the human rights lawyers. Via reader Colin.

    Security officials posing as clients entered the Tehran offices of one of Iran's leading human rights lawyers today and arrested him, Nobel Peace Prize winner Shirin Ebadi just told NPR's Davar Iran Ardalan.

    That lawyer, Abdolfattah Soltani, spoke with Davar just yesterday -- telling her that the Iranian government should recount all the votes in last Friday's disputed presidential election, in which President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the winner by a 2-1 margin.

    "Once they were inside they immediately confiscated his computer and other documents and they arrested Mr. Soltani," Ebadi said in today's interview. "As far as we know, they did not have an arrest warrant."


    Ebadi later called to tell NPR that several other human rights activists had been rounded up as well.

    Update: Via reader Golnaz, Ebadi also called for a new election in an interview with Radio Free Europe:

    I believe that a recount of the votes under the current conditions won't solve anything. A new election must be held and this time it should be under the monitoring of International organizations so that all participants would be contented that the votes that come out of the ballot boxes are the real votes of the people.
    6:03 PM ET -- "What I have witnessed." A powerful note from a female medical student in Iran, translated from Farsi by a trusty reader.

    Hello,

    It's painful to watch what's happening.

    I don't want anything to do with what has been said this far, as I neither have the strength nor the resilience to face all these unfathomable events.

    I only want to speak about what I have witnessed. I am a medical student. There was chaos last night at the trauma section in one of our main hospitals. Although by decree, all riot-related injuries were supposed to be sent to military hospitals, all other hospitals were filled to the rim. Last night, nine people died at our hospital and another 28 had gunshot wounds. All hospital employees were crying till dawn. They (government) removed the dead bodies on back of trucks, before we were even able to get their names or other information. What can you even say to the people who don't even respect the dead. No one was allowed to speak to the wounded or get any information from them. This morning the faculty and the students protested by gathering at the lobby of the hospital where they were confronted by plain cloths anti-riot militia, who in turn closed off the hospital and imprisoned the staff. The extent of injuries are so grave, that despite being one of the most staffed emergency rooms, they've asked everyone to stay and help--I'm sure it will even be worst tonight.

    What can anyone say in face of all these atrocities? What can you say to the family of the 13 year old boy who died from gunshots and whose dead body then disappeared?

    This issue is not about cheating(election) anymore. This is not about stealing votes anymore. The issue is about a vast injustice inflected on the people. They've put a baton in the hand of every 13-14 year old to smash the faces of "the bunches who are less than dirt" (government is calling the people who are uprising dried-up torn and weeds) .

    This is what sickens me from dealing with these issues. And from those who shut their eyes and close their ears and claim the riots are in opposition of the government and presidency!! No! The people's complaint is against the egregious injustices committed against the people.
    The systemic "cleansing" of the voice of opposition withn Iran while Ahmedinejad is out of the country. SOP for suppresive regimes. I've been listening to the english translations of the State sponsored radio.... there's growing "noise" about the US being involved with the protestors. They haven't been so blatant as to name the US, yet. But, they are naming the "West" and using voice clips and comments by Limbaugh, O'Reilly...... Nothing about Pence, yet.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    That we don't know for sure. When I was in Iran in 1987, I met more secular people than religious. I can't really tell because I never lived there, but that's the impression I got and that's what my Iranian friends tell me.
    I'm not saying they are fundamentalists, but they are probably more attached to their religion than many Americans.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    See, that sort of stuff is touching, not being sarcastic.

    They can knock the guy down, and some of them (unfortunately not the ones who caused the bleeding wounds) can find it in their hearts to take their "enemy" and give them aid and treatment. Very humane.
    And that kind of treatment is very good for them strategically. It humanizes both the riot police and rioters. I think it could lead to police defections. The GC is already ordering the arrest of numerous military leaders they believe are at risk of siding with the protesters.

    Good for the Iranians.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    This whole situation is incredible -- how things have changed.

    10-15 years ago, we'd never all this information, this fast.

    20 years ago, events like this went unreported. Sadly, they probably still do in parts of the world.

    It's been an incredible story to follow. My heart goes out to the citizens. Let's hope that, as much as possible, they stay out of harms way.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Could we please keep the actions of the American government out of this thread? There are a few threads open for that already, and I don't want to see this thread cluttered with it.
    Would you agree that discussing what America should do at this juncture is fair game?
    *insert profound statement here*

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