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Thread: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

  1. #231
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    True, but they said the same thing in 1979 I imagine no?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Superior killing technology didn't save the Shah.
    True enough. We'll see, but I'm not very optimistic.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Don't be so quick to write them off. 300,000 people with sticks, stones, knives, and molotov cocktails are not unarmed. They can quickly shut a city down and overwhelm police stations and militia headquarters and seize more weapons.
    Media reports have claimed as many as 1 million demonstrating in Tehran, but reports on the ground have asserted as many as 3 million people. Media reports on issues like this are almost always underestimated, and the amount of people coming out to demonstrate in the streets in Tehran alone I would say is at least 2 million; this does not include the millions throughout the rest of the country coming out as well.

    Media reports have also stated that 17 people have been killed but sources on the ground are reporting estimates as high as 30 so far. To be honest, there's really no way to tell if the 30 estimate is accurate or if there have actually been more, but I know for a fact that more than 17 have been killed. Hundreds have also been taken prisoner.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #233
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Source: guardian.co.uk

    The scale of the fraud committed here is simply astounding.
    The West must support iranian opposition with a huge lot of money. Crazy Ahmadjigad must gotta go!
    Rom 6:23:For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

  4. #234
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Media reports have claimed as many as 1 million demonstrating in Tehran, but reports on the ground have asserted as many as 3 million people. Media reports on issues like this are almost always underestimated, and the amount of people coming out to demonstrate in the streets in Tehran alone I would say is at least 2 million; this does not include the millions throughout the rest of the country coming out as well.

    Media reports have also stated that 17 people have been killed but sources on the ground are reporting estimates as high as 30 so far. To be honest, there's really no way to tell if the 30 estimate is accurate or if there have actually been more, but I know for a fact that more than 17 have been killed. Hundreds have also been taken prisoner.
    Right on, my number was deliberately low. I've been following this closely and am so very, but cautiously, optimistic for the Iranian people. For a few years now I've been discussing the undercurrent of the Velvet Revolution in Iran, but there recent events have served as a catalyst for what appears to be a full scale rebellion in it's infancy right now.

    Now, make no mistake about Mir-Hossein Mousavi, he's not simply waiting to be the west's new best friend. However he holds the greatest promise, if he can actually implement his policies, to changing Iran's course and dramatically improving relations with the U.S. and other nations. I particularly like his stance on the allowance of privately owned television and the free flow of information to the people, woman's rights, and abolishing the Moral Police. But we just need to keep in mind this guy also has history in terms of his participation in the rule of Iran after the 1979 Revolution and during the Iran-Iraq war as well as with Lebanon's Hezbollah party.

    All in all however I think he's a much better choice for the people than what they've had. And once the cork is out of the bottle I think that the fundamental and extremist theocracy that is in power now will be short lived.
    *insert profound statement here*

  5. #235
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Now, make no mistake about Mir-Hossein Mousavi, he's not simply waiting to be the west's new best friend. However he holds the greatest promise, if he can actually implement his policies, to changing Iran's course and dramatically improving relations with the U.S. and other nations. I particularly like his stance on the allowance of privately owned television and the free flow of information to the people, woman's rights, and abolishing the Moral Police. But we just need to keep in mind this guy also has history in terms of his participation in the rule of Iran after the 1979 Revolution and during the Iran-Iraq war as well as with Lebanon's Hezbollah party.
    Mousavi is not a radical or a reformist. Mousavi is a politician. He has made promises that I can guarantee that he is not willing to keep, from a lot of the liberal reform promises to his promotion of freedom and democracy in general. Mousavi is first and foremost in the pocket of the Ayatollah and the religious leaders of the country. This must be kept in mind; it is for this reason that his reform promises will not be carried out if he actually does become president.

    It should also be kept in mind that initially Mousavi came out on the side of the religious leadership and against the demonstrators, initially telling them not to demonstrate. Once he saw the power of the demonstrations and the determination of the Iranian people to demonstrate in defiance of the ban, he shifted his position to supporting peaceful demonstrations. He has now moved so far away from the position of the religious leadership as to demand a new election.

    This, however, must be analyzed very critically; Mousavi, as I have said before, does not have very radical interests and is not a reformist. He is attempting to capitalize on the rage of the people in order to further his political power and aspirations. He is also acting to contain the movement from spilling over into a more general movement against the dictatorship and the government in general (as he is a part of that dictatorship/government). Mousavi should not be supported for this very reason, and should be opposed on all fronts. His only desire is to contain this movement and to steer it to further his own political objectives. He is an opportunist.

    Here's an excerpt from an article we have published:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise of the Iranian People
    Our position, then, is not based on whether or not the elections were legitimate, but rather the fact that the electoral system itself is illegitimate. It is also based on the fact that both Mousavi and Ahmedinejad represent different sections of the ruling classes in Iranian society, and thus to support either candidate is a mistake. The Nation, for example, has come out to support Mousavi, and was rightfully criticized by World Socialist Web Site for these reasons.

    The people of Iran have come out to demonstrate by the millions, defying a government ban on demonstrations and risking their lives in the process. They have come out to contest not only the election results, but also the electoral system in general, and are quickly being further radicalized in the process. As they gain experience and confidence, and as they become increasingly more conscious of the situation unfolding, they have become bolder and more radical. There is a genuine possibility for this movement to radicalize even further, and to perhaps even become revolutionary.

    We recognize the fact that many demonstrating are currently in support of Mousavi, and that Mousavi is attempting to capitalize on this dissent by co-opting the movement for his own political gain and for the purpose of containing it. However, consciousness is developed through struggle, and we will continue to support the Iranian demonstrators in their struggle with the genuine hope that they are able to move beyond Mousaviís trap to emancipate themselves from the autocratic regime and put forward not only an anti-dictatorial, but also a revolutionary solution.

    Rise of the Iranian People
    Mousavi is part of the problem, not the solution.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    There's better coverage of the riots on youtube than cable.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSECAvBTanQ]YouTube - Riot police caught by crowd - Protests in Tehran after election[/ame]

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    There's a reason that the police in Iran are confiscating laptops, cell phones, and cameras...

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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Mousavi is the Ayatollahs hand picked man.
    Even if for some reason the Ayatollah decides to back him it will change nothing.

    Well it will change one thing..many in the west foolishly believe Mousavi is some big time reformer when he is not at all...so you'll get fawning adoration for a fake reformer and Iran will continue doing whats its doing just more certain the foolish west is foolish.

  9. #239
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Well it will change one thing..many in the west foolishly believe Mousavi is some big time reformer when he is not at all...so you'll get fawning adoration for a fake reformer and Iran will continue doing whats its doing just more certain the foolish west is foolish.
    Well he is friendlier towards the west, as he represents a section of the upper class that could benefit financially very much from friendlier relations between Iran and the US. This is also one reason why we see many westerners supporting Mousavi.

    BTW I think that's the first time I've ever thanked you.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  10. #240
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    Re: Riots erupt in Tehran over 'stolen' election

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Mousavi is not a radical or a reformist. Mousavi is a politician. He has made promises that I can guarantee that he is not willing to keep, from a lot of the liberal reform promises to his promotion of freedom and democracy in general. Mousavi is first and foremost in the pocket of the Ayatollah and the religious leaders of the country. This must be kept in mind; it is for this reason that his reform promises will not be carried out if he actually does become president.

    It should also be kept in mind that initially Mousavi came out on the side of the religious leadership and against the demonstrators, initially telling them not to demonstrate. Once he saw the power of the demonstrations and the determination of the Iranian people to demonstrate in defiance of the ban, he shifted his position to supporting peaceful demonstrations. He has now moved so far away from the position of the religious leadership as to demand a new election.

    This, however, must be analyzed very critically; Mousavi, as I have said before, does not have very radical interests and is not a reformist. He is attempting to capitalize on the rage of the people in order to further his political power and aspirations. He is also acting to contain the movement from spilling over into a more general movement against the dictatorship and the government in general (as he is a part of that dictatorship/government). Mousavi should not be supported for this very reason, and should be opposed on all fronts. His only desire is to contain this movement and to steer it to further his own political objectives. He is an opportunist.

    Here's an excerpt from an article we have published:



    Mousavi is part of the problem, not the solution.
    Thank you for the insight. Who do all think holds the best hope for Iran? Certainly you won't suggest a communist will you?
    *insert profound statement here*

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