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Thread: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

  1. #61
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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Healthcare prices are not regulated. They are set by the health care providers and insurance companies negotiate with selected providers for GROUP rates.
    That's the problem. They are set by the health care providers and insurance companies, not on what the Consumer can afford, but on what the large insurance companies can afford. Prices go higher the more the insurance company can afford and thus forcing more customers into the insurance company (which gives them more profits).

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    You spew a lot of hyperbole with little to support your farcical claims that they charge prices 99% cannot afford to pay.
    How many people can afford $25k for a simple child birth? (My son was born 5 weeks ago and that is the total bill before insurance paid the great majority).

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    But it is equally farcical to support the idea that when Government gets involved in ANYTHING prices go down; whenever Government gets involved the costs to do business go up across the board.
    Yes it is. Which is why I don't support this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    States increase the costs to get health care by actually limiting the companies that can do business in the State with their burdensom regulations.
    Really? We have 3 different hospitals (owned by different companies) in a 25 mile radius and 5 different clinics. I don't see a problem with medical competition. I see a problem with price competition. WHich is not at the state level but at the health care and insurance partnership level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Like I stated, the FACT is that healthcare costs go down when there is MORE comptetition, LESS government intervention, if we implement tort reform to bring down the cost of liability and if people actually controlled paying for their health care and were actually engaged by seeing the bills before payments were paid.
    LESS insurance price inflation will make health care costs go down along with competition. It doesn't matter if there are 2 doctors or 20 doctors in your area if they are all charging an insurance company exorbitant fees for their service. Prices will not decline until the CONSUMER starts shopping around for medical services. Like they do in the cosmetic surgery industry. Currently the consumer doesn't care because they always pay roughly the same since Insurance covers the great majority of costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Unfortunately our education system is pumping out complete ignoramuses who couldn't read a bill or a contract if their lives depended on it and think that being a WARD of the State is the best alternative.

    It begs the question; why do you so desperately want to be a ward of the Government?
    Please show where I desperately want to be a ward of Government and I'll answer your question.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 06-12-09 at 02:42 PM.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    A medical union which is the only institution that can give out medical licenses tends to make prices much more expensive than they otherwise would be. It's not a free monopoly, it's a government-sanctioned monopoly. HUGE difference.
    The medical union, in conjunction with insurance companies, makes prices more expensive so that the doctor's get as much money as they can from the insurance companies and insurance companies can generate as many customers as they can for profits.

    Eliminate insurance companies (for the majority of medical services) and prices will drop to levels dictated by the consumer free market.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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  3. #63
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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    The medical union, in conjunction with insurance companies, makes prices more expensive so that the doctor's get as much money as they can from the insurance companies and insurance companies can generate as many customers as they can for profits.

    Eliminate insurance companies (for the majority of medical services) and prices will drop to levels dictated by the consumer free market.
    We can just leave insurance companies alone. They'll figure out what's best when government intrustion is forfeited. Same with the AMA. Stop the support of the AMA and we'll get more realistic prices. Sure, the AMA will still exist, but then we will have other doctors.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    -the U.S. ranks around 29th in the world in infant mortality rates.
    The U.S. calculates their infant mortality rates different than a lot of the rest of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    -The U.S. ranks around 41st in life expectancy
    We have a lot of immigrants that have been exposed to less than healthy life styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    - The U.S. health care system ranks around 37th according to W.H.O.
    The W.H.O. ranks health care based on who does and does not have goverment health care.

    No doubt we will never be #1 no matter what we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    -The U.S. spends the highest percentage of their GDP on health care costs of any country in the world according to WHO
    If you want your health care now you pay more for it, unless of course you want to die waiting for services because its cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Do I need to provide links, or are you aware of these rankings?

    This in addition to what I posted earlier are why I say our current health care system is broken.
    Most of us are aware of them, we are aware that they don't apply.
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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Sorry,typo $15K per month.
    Oh OK. I was going to say $15 a month? I would like the number of your provider.


    Dude !!! I cited the sources of info I have. I didn't paraphrase them, I cut and pasted info from their report. I was hardly suggesting that they were they utmost worlds authority. In fact, I asked for your reference, and even said they could be wrong, anything is possible. I asked for an alternative solution. Hardly the position of someone being super opinionated on the subject. I cited W.H.O., and asked if you had anything to contradict them. You provided you argument, as asked. Why the attitude?
    No attitude. I'm just very direct, I guess.

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I just looked up some health insurance quotes for a family of four. The highest monthly rate was approximately $400; that's $4,800 a year. [1] The household median income of 2007 was $50,233. [2] So, in order to insure their family most Americans need to spend around ten percent of their income per year, and that's assuming they purchase the premium coverage plans.

    If you cannot afford to dispense with ten percent of your yearly income in order to ensure your family's health is protected then you need to do some budgeting, plain and simple. No more fast-food, no more brand-name clothing, no more entertainment systems, etc.

    The only problem America has in regards to health insurance is our collective inability to manage money with frugality. A massive over-reliance on credit and worthless material possessions is the only reason so many people find themselves uninsured. It's not THAT expensive, especially when one considers the importance of health care. Personal responsibility, self-reliance, less government, these things will trend the cost of health insurance and health care downward, but that would be difficult or hard so, obviously, that’s not an option…

    [1] - Message
    [2] - US Census Press Releases
    Stop, your not supposed to tell the truth!
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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I just looked up some health insurance quotes for a family of four. The highest monthly rate was approximately $400; that's $4,800 a year. [1] The household median income of 2007 was $50,233. [2] So, in order to insure their family most Americans need to spend around ten percent of their income per year, and that's assuming they purchase the premium coverage plans.

    If you cannot afford to dispense with ten percent of your yearly income in order to ensure your family's health is protected then you need to do some budgeting, plain and simple. No more fast-food, no more brand-name clothing, no more entertainment systems, etc.

    The only problem America has in regards to health insurance is our collective inability to manage money with frugality. A massive over-reliance on credit and worthless material possessions is the only reason so many people find themselves uninsured. It's not THAT expensive, especially when one considers the importance of health care. Personal responsibility, self-reliance, less government, these things will trend the cost of health insurance and health care downward, but that would be difficult or hard so, obviously, that’s not an option…

    [1] - Message
    [2] - US Census Press Releases
    I am curious if that median income figure includes the insurance benefits one typically receives from their employer; my guess is that it doesn't.

    But using your point, the reality is that it is indeed about CHOICE; we can CHOOSE to cover ourselves and our families, or we can CHOOSE not to and buy that $5,000.00 TV.

    The argument from the Liberals always seems to be that one should NOT have to CHOOSE between the TV and healthcare and that OTHERS should provide for their healthcare so that they can have the TV without making any sacrifice.

    NOT having CHOICE is the eventuality of any Socialist solution and I think this is what amazes me the most about Americans; that they would CHOOSE to not have a CHOICE.

  8. #68
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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Say minimum wage is $6.55. That's $262 a week and if you work 45 weeks (that's a lot of vacation) you make $11790. That's for a family of 4 and only one person working full time.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    How many people can afford $25k for a simple child birth? (My son was born 5 weeks ago and that is the total bill before insurance paid the great majority).
    You made my case; how much do you pay for insurance for your family? How much did it actually cost you for your sons birth?

    Insurance reduces YOUR burden by spreading the cost among all the members.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Please show where I desperately want to be a ward of Government and I'll answer your question.
    I thought the debate was about Government provided care; it was a general comment related to the debate, not claiming that YOU personally believe in it.

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Say minimum wage is $6.55. That's $262 a week and if you work 45 weeks (that's a lot of vacation) you make $11790. That's for a family of 4 and only one person working full time.
    Huh? Who is this directed at and what is the point?

    I am sorry, when have you EVER seen anyone supporting a family on minimum wage? Unless of course it is an 18 year old high school student who got his girlfriend pregnant and has ZERO work experience and his parents kicked him out; or an illegal alien.

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