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Thread: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Wow....I don't think I've seen as much Denial in one post in the history of this site.

    That is impossible...you post.

    I have no doubt whatsoever you where bashing Bush for doing anything akin to what you are now patting Obama on the butt for.
    Last edited by Triad; 06-12-09 at 04:03 AM.

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
    BO is going to fix health care like he fixed the economy. By screwing the middle class.
    Please provide an example of how the administration is "screwing the middle class". I suspect you are simply mouthing rightwing lies....again.

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    There is no "government system" suggested, only an alternative that will support the existing system. If you like the health care you have, no one will try to change it. What's the problem?
    That is completely false. The effect the government system we will have will undercut the private insurance agencies and eventually put them out of business, eventually forcing everyone into the government system. This is why the AMA has just come out in opposition to the Democrats' plan.
    Last edited by Don't Tase Me Bro; 06-12-09 at 10:51 AM.

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    That is completely false. The effect the government system we will have will undercut the private insurance agencies and eventually put them out of business, eventually forcing everyone into the government system. This is why the AMA has just come out in opposition to the Democrats' plan.
    This is not true, just mouthing of the excuses the pharmaceutical industry is spinning so they won't lose market share. Sure, private insurers will lose business, that is the whole freaking point. Since when is the continued wealth of private medical insurers more important than affordable health care?

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Please provide an example of how the administration is "screwing the middle class". I suspect you are simply mouthing rightwing lies....again.
    Inflation definitely screws the middle class since the value of their savings will crumble.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Do you have anything to support your argument? Where does the U.S. rank according to you? Which countries report these items differently to the WHO?
    Of course I can support my argument. I don't offer opinions on subjects that I am ignorant on.

    First, it's shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless. And some countries don't reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.

    Infant mortality in developed countries is not about healthy babies dying of treatable conditions as in the past. Most of the infants we lose today are born critically ill, and 40 percent die within the first day of life. The major causes are low birth weight and prematurity, and congenital malformations. As Nicholas Eberstadt, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, points out, Norway, which has one of the lowest infant mortality rates, shows no better infant survival than the United States when you factor in weight at birth.

    U.S. News & World Report

    Links? And exactly what do you define as "staggering"? What percentage difference qualifies as staggering? Are you taking into account all the other variables?
    Here you go

    One of the reports compares the statistics from Europe with those from the United States and shows that for most solid tumors, survival rates were significantly higher in US patients than in European patients. This analysis, headed by Arduino Verdecchia, PhD, from the National Center for Epidemiology, Health Surveillance, and Promotion, in Rome, Italy, was based on the most recent data available. It involved about 6.7 million patients from 21 countries, who were diagnosed with cancer between 2000 and 2002.

    The age-adjusted 5-year survival rates for all cancers combined was 47.3% for men and 55.8% for women, which is significantly lower than the estimates of 66.3% for men and 62.9% for women from the US Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End Results (SEER) program ( P < .001).

    Survival was significantly higher in the United States for all solid tumors, except testicular, stomach, and soft-tissue cancer, the authors report. The greatest differences were seen in the major cancer sites: colon and rectum (56.2% in Europe vs 65.5% in the United States), breast (79.0% vs 90.1%), and prostate cancer (77.5% vs 99.3%), and this "probably represents differences in the timeliness of diagnosis," they comment. That in turn stems from the more intensive screening for cancer carried out in the United States, where a reported 70% of women aged 50 to 70 years have undergone a mammogram in the past 2 years, one-third of people have had sigmoidoscopy or colonoscopy in the past 5 years, and more than 80% of men aged 65 years or more have had a prostate-specific antigen (PSA) test. In fact, it is this PSA testing that probably accounts for the very high survival from prostate cancer seen in the United States, the authors comment.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/561737

    The problem is that too many Americans cannot afford it, or even a reasonable facsimile thereof.
    That is your opinion.



    I'm the employer paying close to $15 a month in health insurance premiums for my employees to be able to afford to go to the doctor.
    $15 a month? That's it? That's pretty darn cheap, so what's the problem?


    No. Have you?
    Of course I have read it. What's telling is that you haven't and yet you sit there throwing out quotes and numbers from a report that you have never read, analyzed, or verified.

    I should not have to point out all of the facts I did to someone as opinionated on this subject as you appear to be. You should have done your own research before just blindly accepting the statistics from some report you've heard others talk about.

  7. #47
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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    That is impossible...you post.

    I have no doubt whatsoever you where bashing Bush for doing anything akin to what you are now patting Obama on the butt for.
    Wanna give a single example?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    This is not true, just mouthing of the excuses the pharmaceutical industry is spinning so they won't lose market share.
    No, it is very much the truth. It's easily foreseeable to anyone with a knowledge of economics and historical economic trends of comparative industries. This is precisely why the American Medical Association opposes it.

    Sure, private insurers will lose business, that is the whole freaking point.
    Really? Bankrupt an entire industry and putting hundreds of thousands of people out of work is the whole point?

    Since when is the continued wealth of private medical insurers more important than affordable health care?
    Note that you say "affordable" health care. That's always the argument from you people who seek to destroy our health care system. You never talk about the quality of that health care and how that will suffer in order to make it "affordable." It will become "affordable" by rationing care, long waiting lists, and denying treatments that the government bureaucrats deem to expensive or draining on the system. This is what happens in nations with socialist health care every day.

    And "the continued wealth of private medical insurers", as you so notably phrase it, thus citing a class warfare jealousy argument and not a medical one, is quite important to me because that private insurance is the reason I have a better quality of health care than most other people in the world.

    Government health care for everyone isn't about taking those people with less access to health care or a lack of insurance and bringing them up to the quality of care the rest of us receive today. It's about taking the rest of the us with a high quality of care and dragging that quality down to make it "affordable" so everyone can have the same miserable low quality health care, just like in Britain and Canada etc.

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    GREEN BAY, Wis. - Surrounded by supportive citizens in the heartland, President Barack Obama challenged lawmakers back in Washington who criticize his proposed health care overhaul. "What's the alternative?" he said Thursday.
    What is the alternative?
    Eliminate third-party payment and make everyone pay for everything themselves.

    Free market competition will lower prices and improve quality.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 06-12-09 at 12:19 PM.

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    Re: Obama declares that it's time to fix health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Government may help in making it affordable at the clinic or hospital but the cost is way to high at the government level, IMHO.

    Health care will be fixed by allowing it to be privatized and helping remove the outrageous inflation imposed by huge insurance companies with the goal to strong arm anyone not wanting to invest in insurance.
    Wrong; healthcare will get fixed by allowing MORE competition and removing idiotic regulations that make healthcare EXPENSIVE. One example would be California's requirement of forcing hospitals to provide care to illegal aliens.


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