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Thread: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, any health care reform legislation should be careful not to undermine private sector health care coverage while seeking to address the very real shortcomings in the health system at large i.e., incidence of uninsured persons, costs that have been rising at a multiple of inflation and economic growth for a prolonged period of time, etc. In addition, it should not impose new burdens that could adversely impact the cost structures of businesses, making U.S. companies less competitive vis-a-vis their international rivals or raising the effective cost of employment so as to create a higher level of structural unemployment.

    With respect to the AMA's position, the White House should issue a challenge to the AMA to offer its own plan that would:

    1. Dramatically reduce the incidence of uninsured persons, with benchmarks for the near-term.

    2. Bring about cost containment so that health costs do not rise at a multiple of inflation and economic growth. In the long-run, those rising health costs are not sustainable, and the sooner the issue is addressed, the easier the transition will be.

    If the AMA puts forth a plan, that plan should be given serious consideration in the mix of overall health care reform options that might be available at the time. If, however, the AMA does not furnish such a plan that credibly addresses the two biggest problems (coverage gaps and costs) with the U.S. health care system, then it will be clear that the AMA is merely trying to defend the status quo.

    Hopefully, the AMA would provide a credible alternative, as the more options that are available, the greater the chance that a beneficial approach to health care reform can be pursued.
    Team Obama already has cost containment and reduction in its plans.

    Its called rationing.

    That is what they mean by "reducing costs". Simply having the government become the monopoly kingpin on healthcare isnt going to reduce cost, it will explode cost, so one of the ways for them to reduce cost is going to be rationing care. Then they will start lecturing private citizens on what cars to drive, based on safety standards, those who dont make that safety standard will not be made or produced. Then they will determine what types of foods we can eat, based on another set of health standards. Then we have the government lecturing (aka...telling us) what physical activities will be acceptable on a whole nother set of safety/health standards, all in the name of "reducing costs". Before you know it, life will be one gigantic government provided subsidy, when they think that particular subsidy isnt worth their investment any longer, it will be phased out and done away with.

    This is how government functions, this is how government circles the wagons around its intended targets (and unintended targets) that restricts choices in all aspects of life, and this is what the left and Democrats are pushing for.
    Last edited by TheHat; 06-11-09 at 12:38 PM.

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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Do away with health insurance. That is the beast that drives up costs; kill that beast and costs come crashing back down to earth.
    You don't have to do away with health insurance. High deductible catastrophic insurance plans would have the same effect.

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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    You don't have to do away with health insurance. High deductible catastrophic insurance plans would have the same effect.
    BINGO!

    Name the only insurance that covers anything and everything?

    Health insurance. Insurance is there for catastrophic incidents, not routine stuff, except for health insurance that is.

    When was the last time you claimed an oil change on car insurance?
    When was the last time you claimed an AC filter on homeowners insurance?

    Routine stuff that dont need 2 other groups paying for them should not be insured by either of the 2 groups.

    We just had a clinic open up here in town that is not taking insurance. It has set prices on all procedures. It was started by a group of doctors who got fed up with Medicare and Medicaid not paying up (same government that now wants to include everybody on these programs with ObamaCare) and having to deal with intermediate groups instead of just the doctor patient relationship. You can go there for all the routine tests, procedures, shots, etc, etc. They can refer you to a hospital for major medical care, but everything else is paid out of pocket.

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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    You don't have to do away with health insurance. High deductible catastrophic insurance plans would have the same effect.
    As has already been noted, that is a significant departure from the current health insurance model. I agree that would be an improvement over the current system. I think there are structurally better solutions than that, however.

    Personally, I am of the opinion that, instead of insurance, an expansion of the "health savings account" is the most effective model. It needs to be more than just a repository of patient contributions, but it should at its foundation be an asset to the patient.

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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Why should they, or why would they?
    In the current system, both questions are equally appropriate, and pretty much coincide.

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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by NDNdancer View Post
    Unlike the AMA, the Physicians for Single Payer have done the research and have a plan.......

    Single-Payer Primer for the Press | Physicians for a National Health Program

    It might be useful to understand who actually funds and runs the AMA and read alternative voices to get a more complete picture of what medical providers think about this issue.
    A liberal advocacy group would be in favor of this.

    I LOVE how anyone that doesn't agree with the glorious liberal ideology "hasn't done their homework" and is obviously ignorant.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    The AMA opposes any change in the status quo. Especially anything that has the chance of upsetting their applecart of increasing costs. They always have and always will.


    American Medical Association Trying To Torpedo Health Care Reform Again
    Historically and philosophically, however, AMA's opposition is hardly newsworthy. Despite a lofty reputation and purported commitment to universal coverage, AMA has fought almost every major effort at health care reform of the past 70 years. The group's reputation on this matter is so notorious that historians pinpoint it with creating the ominous sounding phrase "socialized medicine" in the early decades of the 1900s.

    "The AMA used it to mean any kind of proposal that involved an increased role for the government in the health care system," Jonathan Oberlander, a professor of health policy at the University of North Carolina, told NPR in a 2007 interview. "They also used it to mean things in the private system that they didn't like. So, at one point, HMOs were a form of socialized medicine."

    Indeed, the role played by AMA throughout health care reform battles past has often been primarily as the defender of the status quo. In 1935, fears of an AMA backlash helped persuade Franklin Roosevelt's advisers to drop a health care article from the Social Security package -- fearful that the opposition would sink the legislation altogether.

    Concerned about government restriction on and oversight over surgical activities -- not to mention the loss of physician income -- the group deployed the "socialized medicine" argument to undermine Harry Truman's effort at a national health care system years later.

    In 1961, AMA organized a campaign to block Medicare. Titled "Operation Coffeecup," the effort insisted that the government-sponsored system would lead to a varying form of totalitarianism.
    There are other voices out there besides the one behemoth obstructionist group opposed to any kind of change. I expected their response and knew it would be similar to their last response and the one before that. They're predictable.

    What I wanted to know and understand is the entire debate. I never hinted that anyone was ignorant, but offered another view from another group of physicians.

    This is too important for your partisan bull****.
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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by NDNdancer View Post
    There are other voices out there besides the one behemoth obstructionist group opposed to any kind of change. I expected their response and knew it would be similar to their last response and the one before that. They're predictable.

    What I wanted to know and understand is the entire debate. I never hinted that anyone was ignorant, but offered another view from another group of physicians.

    This is too important for your partisan bull****.
    You specifically stated that the AMA hasn't done their research, but then you point us to a group called Physicians for Single Payer, whose very name suggests they have a biased agenda of their own. Why should we believe your group is anymore credible than the AMA?

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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    You specifically stated that the AMA hasn't done their research, but then you point us to a group called Physicians for Single Payer, whose very name suggests they have a biased agenda of their own. Why should we believe your group is anymore credible than the AMA?
    Actually, they're not my "group", but an opposing view for contrast and consideration. Rather then listen to the AMA alone, I'd prefer to know other points of view. Their's is well known.

    The AMA offered nothing other then opposing any change in the current structure. It's pretty obvious that the rest of the country thinks the current course is wrong and wants some kind of health care reform. Rather then be part of the change and helping define it, the AMA wants to maintain the status quo. That's no plan. Other then obstruct what's going on, bring on a real debate about what the new system needs to look like.

    The AMA sounds eerily like Republicans, offer no plan, but oppose any change. Yeah, that'll work.
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    Re: AMA opposes Obama's Health Care plans...

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Eliminate the current health insurance monstrosity across the board.


    Eliminate the current health insurance monstrosity across the board.


    The only viable "reform" is to eliminate the current health insurance monstrosity across the board.


    The only credible alternative is to eliminate the current health insurance monstrosity across the board.

    The health insurance system in this country is geared towards price maximization. In every respect, it operates to inflate prices. Until that beast is killed outright, there will be no effective cost containment in healthcare.

    Government plans merely substitute cost maximization for price maximization--until the government runs out of money, as is happening with Britain's National Health Service right now.

    The only rational economic structure is one where the consumer of healthcare (i.e., the patient), is 100% burdened with the the costs of his/her own care. The idea of "sharing risk" sounds all cute and warm and fuzzy and fully of compassion and preserving of life and so on, but it is bad economics and has produced artificial and irrational price inflation in healthcare.

    Do away with health insurance. That is the beast that drives up costs; kill that beast and costs come crashing back down to earth.
    It won't happen in a million years, well maybe a hundred years.
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