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Thread: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You did not address my points, nor are the answers to these questions pertinent the constitutionality of the Federal Reserve.
    How do you figure?

    1. The authority to create money is limited specifically to the Congress, not an extra-governmental institution created by the Congress.
    "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof."

    In order to execute the power of coining money, Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act.

    2. The main tool of exercising monetary policy (open market operations) for the Fed is unconstitutional because currency creation is limited specifically to coining money.
    Link?

    3. Since no such authority is enumerated, the government does not retain the authority to dictate interest rates.
    General Welfare clause (this really applies to all above points as well, but hey).
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    I like how you word that very specifically. First you're saying sarcastically that the Fed does not have oversight by a government branch, then you say Congress has absolute control over the existence of the Fed.
    Are you going to deny that Congress could abolish the Fed tomorrow if it wished?

    Yet to even perform a basic audit of the Fed, the Congress has to pass special legislation. What other organizations in the federal government require special legislation to audit, NYC?
    It doesn't require "special legislation," it simply requires any legislation providing for an audit, just like any organization. They could have included it in the Fed Reserve Act, but they didn't.


    If you could, please elaborate the President's powers of the FOMC and how they are derived.
    He appoints 7. There are 12. They vote.

    If you can't be bothered to learn the most basic facts, this is going to be a very short "debate."
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    I too would like to know in what way the Federal reserve can be deemed to be unconstitutional.

    I have no doubt that Danahea will be able to enlighten us on this point?
    The Federal Reserve itself is unquestionably constitutional. McCulloch v Maryland established the constitutionality of Congress' power to charter banks, and the Federal Reserve System itself is, at the end of the day, merely a bank.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    How do you figure?



    "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof."

    In order to execute the power of coining money, Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act.



    Link?



    General Welfare clause (this really applies to all above points as well, but hey).
    According to you the federal government has the power to do whatever it wants.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If you can't be bothered to learn the most basic facts, this is going to be a very short "debate."
    If you can't maintain a modicum of civility then it indeed will be a very short debate.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    According to you the federal government has the power to do whatever it wants.
    The "necessary and proper" clause has been called "the elastic clause" for that very reason.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    According to you the federal government has the power to do whatever it wants.
    No. According to him, the federal government, specifically Congress has the power to enact and create institutions to fulfill the stated powers of Congress given to it by the Constitution.

    There was a reason he specifically named the institutions Congress created to carry out its stated powers. Did he name institutions that were not related to carrying out its stated powers? No. He did not. So where did you get the notion that Congress is free to do whatever it wants?

    Now NASA, that could be argued to be unconstitutional. And space navies does not count.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    No. According to him, the federal government, specifically Congress has the power to enact and create institutions to fulfill the stated powers of Congress given to it by the Constitution.

    There was a reason he specifically named the institutions Congress created to carry out its stated powers. Did he name institutions that were not related to carrying out its stated powers? No. He did not. So where did you get the notion that Congress is free to do whatever it wants?

    Now NASA, that could be argued to be unconstitutional. And space navies does not count.
    I picked it up where he was basically saying that the general welfare clause allows the federal government to set interest rates. If it can set interest rates it may as well be considered to do whatever it wants. When you have control of the money in your hands you control the whole system.

    Haha, it's very funny, YOUR ONE AND ONLY CONCESSION to the constitution is NASA, well aren't you just the ****ing heroic champion of Jeffersonian principles. Oh but the general welfare clause!
    Last edited by Liz Peeps; 06-12-09 at 04:12 AM.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    I picked it up where he was basically saying that the general welfare clause allows the federal government to set interest rates. If it can set interest rates it may as well be considered to do whatever it wants. When you have control of the money in your hands you control the whole system.
    Actually, if you wanted to argue the matter at length, the power to regulate interstate commerce would be a more logical foundation for regulating interest rates.

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    Re: House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    How do you figure?
    Because none of the aforementioned organizations are the structural or methodological equivalent of the Federal Reserve. How can one determine the constitutionality of the Federal Reserve by asking whether or not the IRS or DoD is constitutional?

    "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof."

    In order to execute the power of coining money, Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act.
    1. If a government institution is going to execute powers delegated to the Congress then it should be subject to some form of Congressional oversight.

    2. The Federal Reserve does not coin money. It creates it out of thin air via open-market operations.

    Link?
    For what?

    General Welfare clause (this really applies to all above points as well, but hey).
    So, you read the General Welfare Clause as some nebulous invitation for the Congress to spend and dictate however it pleases?

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