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Thread: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

  1. #21
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    This debate reminds me about my story about the goals of the group in my progressive income taxes thread (which I may not continue working in for BS reasons...)

    Simillar to what I would tell people at doors, I think we should remember that there is not just two options here.

    We don't just need to have a flat income tax and cut welfare spending, or just increase taxes in a progressive way.

    How about California cuts services and increases all of its taxes in a non-progressive way?

    This radical plan for this thread only targets the poor when instead it should be a "shared sacrifice" I like to say to people.

  2. #22
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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    HOLY ****! Holy ****ing ****! California, gettign rid of welfare? Where the **** did that come from? California? THE California? The biggest whining hippy-liberal state in the union? THAT california? What the ****. If it wasn't for the fact I think that's a good idea, that'd scare the ****ing **** outta me.

    Holy CRAP! Who the hell could have seen this coming?

    1920 Conservativism is making a come back, and oh what a come back it is. California ya'll. It's in ****ING CALIFORNIA. Holy crap!

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
    California cant elimate welfare. The Democrats voter base would dry up, along with the Mexican vote.

    Although, it would be sweet poetic justice to hear Democrats have to come to terms with their ridiculous notion that the government can provide all aspects of daily life on the taxpayer's dime. For them to totally reject that, would be a day of revolution in this country.

    80 years of welfare reform, down the tubes and finally admitted to being worthless and bad policy. That would be a sweet day.
    This pretty much sums up the FACTS; great commentary.

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    how is a flat tax bad if the necessities of life are exempt
    so the poor have to pay more for their cigarettes, 40's & McDonalds
    is that really so bad


    sorry if this has already beeen discussed, but i could not deal iwht PeteEU anymore than the first page before responding. i am runnig out of hair to rip out of my head

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    HOLY ****! Holy ****ing ****! California, gettign rid of welfare? Where the **** did that come from? California? THE California? The biggest whining hippy-liberal state in the union? THAT california? What the ****. If it wasn't for the fact I think that's a good idea, that'd scare the ****ing **** outta me.

    Holy CRAP! Who the hell could have seen this coming?

    1920 Conservativism is making a come back, and oh what a come back it is. California ya'll. It's in ****ING CALIFORNIA. Holy crap!
    you might be in the running for the most censorship in one post
    and i like it

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Way too good to be true...


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL you should stop listening to Forbes and his crew. Flat tax is a horrible idea and will only benefit the rich..who funny enough are the ones proposing such idiotic policy.
    Great, more socialist attempts at class warfare. In reality, economic growth benefits poor people the most.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Do the math and you will understand how flat tax hurts the low wage earners much more than it does the multi millionaires proposing such policies.
    Oh noes, someone may have to come a bit closer to pulling one's own economic weight instead of stealing from others, which is what Welfare in fact is... The horror! The horror!


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Flat tax nations in Europe are the worst off at the moment. Their whole economy is at near collapse due to lack of funds and their growth has all but vanished due to the drying up of credit. Some of those very countries are talking up to a 25% drop in GDP because of the crisis.
    There are many other reasons why Eastern Europe was hit badly by the recession (which was caused by government interference, BTW). Correlation does not prove causation, especially with such a small data sample.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As for completely eliminate welfare.. move to Somalia and see how that is.
    Better than many of its neighbors, actually, but only because their big bad government is so fragmented and dysfunctional. A corrupt and dysfunctional government can be less toxic to the economy than a functional one.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Countries without any safety net rank as some of the poorest and worst off on the planet.
    Yeah, sure, the world's most capitalist countries -- Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland, etc -- are also the poorest. Brilliant.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is a egotists dream [...]
    You say it as if egoism is a bad thing, and not the driving force behind the human civilization...


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    [...] and all are basicly ruled by the gun and the rich. Is that how you vision your country?
    Rich people don't have a "divine right" to initiate aggression - only the governments do.
    Last edited by Alex Libman; 06-08-09 at 07:10 PM.

  7. #27
    Dispenser of Negativity
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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post

    What's next? Illinois going to ban worker's unions?
    Now thats just downright illegal, if anything civil service jobs shouldnt be allowed to unionize.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    I'm as anti-union as one gets, but no one actually supports "banning" unions. People can unionize until they're blue in the face, unions are pointless without the government violence that backs them.

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    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    I'm as anti-union as one gets, but no one actually supports "banning" unions. People can unionize until they're blue in the face, unions are pointless without the government violence that backs them.
    A union doesn't need the government for them to work. Strikes, boycotts, closed shop action, it all doesn't require the government.

    (This is unrelated to the thread, but)

    I am currently leaning against unions, but their power should just be limited to what the union can do legally. (which means a union shouldn't be allowed to stay inside of a factory to prevent other workers from entering)

    >I suppose the only type of government intervention should be that a worker can't be fired from their work simply because they are in a union. I consider this simillar to laws against companies saying outright that "no colored allowed." Even though individuals should theoretically be free to fire someone for being black or being in a union, there is still limits.

    But of course, if there is a strike then the company can demand that the strike stop or else they will rehire

    If a union doesn't have the support of a large enough percentage of the elligible workforce, then they don't have a right to demand anything.

  10. #30
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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I suppose the only type of government intervention should be that a worker can't be fired from their work simply because they are in a union.
    Why not? I don't want the hassle of dealing with a union, so to save money I'll avoid hiring people in a union. Of course, if they all secretly join a union and spring it on me all at once, then I'm in a pretty tough position. There's no way that I'm going to fire my entire workforce. If they go on strike, that decision gets a little easier though.

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