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Thread: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    While it is proven that infant industry protection is critical in a global environment
    Proven where?

    You are no libertarian. I'm tired of trying to find one glimmer of hope with you.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Proven where?

    You are no libertarian. I'm tired of trying to find one glimmer of hope with you.
    Even during an era many considered "free trade", protectionist measures kept a budding US economy growing.



    Libertarian does not automatically = laissez faire. That is a fringe segment.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Even during an era many considered "free trade", protectionist measures kept a budding US economy growing.
    I could just as easily say that the economy grew despite these protectionist measures. Correlation does not prove causation, try again. I can show via deduction that tariffs are a bad idea, what's your argument?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I could just as easily say that the economy grew despite these protectionist measures. Correlation does not prove causation, try again. I can show via deduction that tariffs are a bad idea, what's your argument?
    Economic history. Look at Japan, Korea, Malaysia, China, etc.... During the early periods of industrialization in the US (1850-1910) tariffs were implemented.

    I think you are missing the point. Capitalism, as you know it, requires government intervention to function.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Even during an era many considered "free trade", protectionist measures kept a budding US economy growing.



    Libertarian does not automatically = laissez faire. That is a fringe segment.
    The primary concern of the Libertarian party is government intervention in the economy. Most Libertarians support laissez fair policies. The Libertarians themselves are a fringe segment for your information.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Economic history. Look at Japan, Korea, Malaysia, China, etc.... During the early periods of industrialization in the US (1850-1910) tariffs were implemented.

    I think you are missing the point. Capitalism, as you know it, requires government intervention to function.
    Again: correlation does not prove causation.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Again: correlation does not prove causation.
    Ok, before the colonies separated from Britain there were no tariffs, which effectively prevented the growth of any American industries. As a result, when the countries split, America was left with a bunch of raw materials and not a lot of industry. In order for new industry to grow, tariffs had to be in place to protect home grown industry. Thus, tariffs are necessary to promote growth of domestic industry, at least in the beginning. Tariffs are a dangerous tool to use though, because if we raise them, everyone else will too.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    But by raising tariffs, we hold people out from those cheaper, better goods from other countries. Let's not act as if tariffs have no negative repercussions unless other countries raise them.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But by raising tariffs, we hold people out from those cheaper, better goods from other countries. Let's not act as if tariffs have no negative repercussions unless other countries raise them.
    Yes, but those cheaper goods have been made by laborers who haven't been paid enough to feed their family, in factories with no safety requirements not to mention air conditioning. Duh, they're cheaper. That is why companies are moving over there. If we had tariffs that made goods less expensive to produce and sell here, companies would not be moving overseas to produce those goods and the better cheaper goods would be produced here. Let's not pretend that there are no disadvantages to those cheaper goods.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Yes, but those cheaper goods have been made by laborers who haven't been paid enough to feed their family, in factories with no safety requirements not to mention air conditioning. Duh, they're cheaper. That is why companies are moving over there. If we had tariffs that made goods less expensive to produce and sell here, companies would not be moving overseas to produce those goods and the better cheaper goods would be produced here. Let's not pretend that there are no disadvantages to those cheaper goods.
    And when you do that you exclude those other countries from the economic opportunity to accumulate capital and grow as we have. If they don't have the foreign investment, the process will be much longer and the people will languish in comparison to our standard of living.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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