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Thread: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

  1. #31
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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    When 3 gang members get pissed at the way average Joe is looking at them I rather someone have a gun on their hip when the gang members start stabbing him with broken beer bottles or opening fire.
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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    This is in error, apparently. The article linked to says:




    You can carry into a bar, IF the bar owner does not choose to post against it, and IF you do not consume alcohol while armed.

    I have no problem with this at all. Carrying while drinking I would have had a problem with, but that remains illegal according to the article.

    G.
    To Goshin and Celtic Lord - I stand corrected. I agree with you both. Seems I need to read my links better instead of over reacting at first glance. Today, I am an idiot.

    Oops, do I get infraction points for personally attacking myself? LOL.
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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    When 3 gang members get pissed at the way average Joe is looking at them I rather someone have a gun on their hip when the gang members start stabbing him with broken beer bottles or opening fire.
    Tell your senario to the end.

    You’re sitting at a bar with your wife or best girlfriend having a drink (but definitely not getting drunk). I’m there with my wife too at another table. I sort of look like a gang member myself to some people depending how I'm dressed. I have a single stack short 45. My wife has a stub 38 special in her purse. About 50 or 75 other people there packed no more or less than the average tavern style bars on a Saturday night.

    Suddenly we all see, just 20 feet from you, what looks like 3 young Latino gang members furiously stabbing and slashing what looks to you like an average Joe white guy. For some reason they don’t have guns although gang members but you do. Or at least you think they don’t. Maybe other people there also have guns. Or don’t. Maybe there are other gang members there. Maybe not. Not time to tell.

    I’ll finish that story for myself and my wife: We leave. We get in our car and drive away. It is the safest choice for my wife. My wife? Everything to me by comparison. Those average Joe? Nobody to me. Even her out of the picture: Myself? Everything by comparison. That average Joe? Nobody to me.

    It would be entirely different if they were slashing the average black bear or panther with broken bottles and knives. Then they’d be in a s…t load of trouble with me. I’d quickly whisper to my wife to get out her 38 special and get on the floor adding “this one’s for you, baby." After she was down, for sworn duty I’d shoot them a bunch of times as I shouted out “POLICE!” to the others in the bar because shooting them would make me look very good to my wife – though I might delay first if that average bear or average panther was winning because it would be very interesting to watch 3 punks in a knife fight with a bear or panther. Then I'd say off the Miranda warning over their bodies to cover that little detail.

    I’m an excellent shot and a 45 is low penetration, big knock down. She’s not a bad shot anymore either and with 38 liquid filled hollow points also low penetration. She really hates hunters – all except one. She always got a special sparkle in her eye when I hurt someone for her. I’d probably get a medal, at least from my wife. Certainly an extra good BJ out of it. Humans aren’t on any endangered or restricted hunting list so are out of my area of obligation.

    Besides, I can’t think of any legitimate reason 3 guys would be slashing the average bear or panther with broken bottles and knives. Not so sure about that guy being an Average Joe. He might have raped and killed one of their little sisters and then I’d be cheering the 3 even if they were young Latinos. Hard to know what’s going on between people when they’re fighting. In most fight circumstances now most people would conclude by appearances I was the bad guy.

    So my conclusion to your story of gang members attacking average Joe in a bar is simple. “I leave quickly.”

    But it is your story and it is an example you gave of why you said want a firearm in a bar. So the least you can do is to finish your story. Be specific. Fire a warning shot into the air shouting “FREEZE!”? Just open up on the 3? SCREAM “I’ve got a gun, everyone down!”?

    Finish your what-if story. Specifically. What you would do is…
    Last edited by joko104; 06-07-09 at 06:39 PM.

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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Oops, do I get infraction points for personally attacking myself? LOL.
    Nah, but you need to apologize to yourself profusely in appropriately titled Basement thread!

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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Do I need to say for the THIRD TIME that it is still illegal to carry a gun while intoxicated??
    And that a bar owner can STILL post his bar "no guns" if he chooses??



    G.
    Tennessee has found a clever ne wway to get huge fine money from people in relation to liquor. A reason to frisk everyone in a bar down making them take breathe tests so try to make huge fine arrests where not at worse they can do a non-traffic misdemeanor public intoxication ticket or arrest?

    Hey, here's a hint. Probably you don't know what people do in bars. They get drunk.

    That's what bars are for. That's the reason bars specialize in selling alcohol. That's what keeps every bar in business - drunks. Bar fights - tens of millions a year - become bar gunfights. You can't kill someone on a 0.002 second decision with a knife or broken bottle. (Where the hell does anyone get broken bottles in bar fights from other than Hollywood? Why not have gang members breaking tables and chairs over the Average Joe?)

    Seriously, have you ever even seen a bar fight? I've been in many. Been arrested for a few. No one comes at you with anything because no one comes at you at all. They start with the other person or people in your face. In the fantasy gunning down gang members, it'd just be guys that have circled you all within 3 feet increasing puffing at you, intimidating you. No knives. No broken bottles. If they're going to hurt you, they're going to throw you down starting 2 feet away and kick and stomp on you. If you tried to grab for something they'd just take it away and then decide whether or not they want to kill you with your own gun - knowing that is exactly what you were going to try to do to them the second before. Then whether you die or any of them do, I'd just see it as a gun fight you started and maybe you lost.

    It was very rare anyone used a weapon (knife) against me. My attitude totally changed. I could do exactly anything I wanted to a person once a deadly weapon was involved. Legally too. If you and I were in a bar, you used any aggressive or negative words towards me, and I knew you had a gun, in my view I could and should see you as an aggressively deadly threat and do all I could to seriously incapacitate you in the sense of very serious injury. I could kill you without fear of any legal repercusion even if you had done nothing at all. I could even do so just because I didn't like you or wanted to. I am talking about this not in just the "what if theory" voice most write opinions on. I suppose you could tell the police your side of the story that you hadn't reached for your gun if you were still alive. But you had a deadly weapon. I didn't. I win that argument.

    Or shoot you with your own gun, claiming you pulled it (has your finger prints), we struggled over it and you lost. I walk away. You're dead. Actually, with your gun I could shot anyone, claiming it went off while we struggled after you pulled it. The gun started with you, not me. I didn't put a gun into it. You did. If you pull a gun on me but you failed and I get it and shoot you instead, I think I walk free since I tell the story.

    The law will allow cops to kill anyone they want to in bars, however. That could be a plus.

    Then there's all the drinking non-drunk drunks passing their guns around the bar showing them off. Certainly none of those will go off because we know no one in a bar is intoxicated and everyone knows how to handle a handgun safely.

    As for your shouting "THREE TIMES I SAID IT IS ILLEGAL TO HAVE A GUN WHILE INTOXICATED" - it is always illegal to be intoxicated in a bar. Its just not enforced. Anyone drunk in a bar is illegally intoxicated. So, then, for your logic, why is every bar filled with drunks? Its not liquor that makes people drunk, its people that make people drunk? Its ILLEGAL to drive while intoxicated, therefore no one does it?

    Bars are collections of drunks. THAT'S WHAT A BAR IS FOR. It is the place where people go to get drunk and to be with fellow drunks and alcoholics. You're thinking of TGI Friday. Not bars.

    A bar without regular drunks and alcoholics will be out of business quickly. And a bar for which at least a fourth aren't also flying on some drug is rare. If anyone has a gun in a bar then everyone in who wants a gun has a gun. If you have a gun and I want it, its mine. Or are you going to shoot everyone who walks closely behind you? The usability of a handgun assumes you have enough distance from someone to pull it and fire. Enough distance so they just don't take it from you first. You can't just shoot someone for getting too close to you. But if close to you, and all fights start after nose to nose puffing, the gun is an irrelevancy if the other person toughter. In fact, since you've lost one arm and hand going for the gun they don't even have to be tougher. All your really doing is handing him or them your gun.

    Do motorists passing by have a right to put a no-guns sign on the bar door? What about people who live in the apartment complex across the street? Or did I miss your posting the law also requires a minimum of 12 inches of concrete and 1 inch thick steel doors being required?

    You're probably one of those people declaring guns don't kill people, people do. You're wrong. Bullets kill people. Bullets go through walls. Bullets go through more than one person. Bullets go whereever they go. Most people can hit s...t with a handgun and are as likely to hit anyone than who they are shooting at - particularly if drinking.

    It is an insane law that I can only figure another of the endless ways the government tries to profit off alcohol related arrests and any other way to get money from people. Traffic fine money getting too low in Tennessee?

    The only people in a bar that should be allowed to have a firearm should be the bar owner/manager and then limited as to what type of firearm it can be. No high velocity or high capacity firearms.

    I own many handguns and half a dozen shotguns and long rifles. But the extremist of the gun-rights people who believe everyone has a right to have any weapons they want any where they want that they can afford - that we all have a right to own tactical nuclear weapons, grenades and bazookas as they tour the White House - is just extremism on slogans.

    That law was passed to give police legal reason to search anyone in a bar saying it appeared they had bulge or what looked like a gun outline and the usual "slurred speech and alcohol breathe", give them breathe tests and make DWI grade fine arrests for people not in a car. They rely on people like you to use slogans to justify it as a gun-rights issue. Its police fund raising. It is elmination of search and seizure restrictions in the Constitution to people in bars. Go through their purse and pocket for that gun - lucky break. They find pot!

    It makes as much sense and legalizing possessing heroin, but illegal to use, and then giving people who have it blood drug or hair folicle tests. Some money raising and put more citizens in prison concept.
    Last edited by joko104; 06-07-09 at 07:00 PM.

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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    You know, the thing that strikes me when I read this, is this thought...doesn't the Tennessee legislature have more important things to do? I could care less about the issue itself, but if my representatives spent time on something this trivial, I would be looking to run them out of office...

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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You know, the thing that strikes me when I read this, is this thought...doesn't the Tennessee legislature have more important things to do? I could care less about the issue itself, but if my representatives spent time on something this trivial, I would be looking to run them out of office...
    So you're on board with the anti-incumbent movement come next election?

    Sweet!

  8. #38
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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Hey, here's a hint. Probably you don't know what people do in bars. They get drunk.
    Junior, I probably been around a lot more than you have. Not everybody goes to a bar to get drunk. Restaurants that serve alcohol in my state are currently off limits to carry, needs correcting. If you're carrying, no booze. It's simple.



    That's what bars are for. That's the reason bars specialize in selling alcohol. That's what keeps every bar in business - drunks. Bar fights - tens of millions a year - become bar gunfights.
    Maybe you missed a few things:
    1. You have to have a permit, which means a clean record.
    2. the bar can still be posted no carry.
    3. If you're drinking, you can't legally carry.
    4. Permit holders have a FAR better record of staying out of trouble than the general population.


    Seriously, have you ever even seen a bar fight? I've been in many. Been arrested for a few. No one comes at you with anything because no one comes at you at all. They start with the other person or people in your face. In the fantasy gunning down gang members, it'd just be guys that have circled you all within 3 feet increasing puffing at you, intimidating you. No knives. No broken bottles. If they're going to hurt you, they're going to throw you down starting 2 feet away and kick and stomp on you. If you tried to grab for something they'd just take it away and then decide whether or not they want to kill you with your own gun - knowing that is exactly what you were going to try to do to them the second before. Then whether you die or any of them do, I'd just see it as a gun fight you started and maybe you lost.
    Dude, I have probably forgotten more about tactics and fighting than you ever knew to start with. Don't try to teach your gramma to suck eggs. If you think you can just take a gun away from me, you're welcome to try. Ever heard of ECQC? Yeah, didn't think so. Don't try to come on like you know more about this crap. CONCEALED weapon means concealed, as in people don't usually know you're carrying. This is the same old tired BS as we heard about shall issue permits to start with. "Oh it will be a bloodbath!" But it wasn't.

    I know how to take guns away from people. I've done it. I know how to keep people from taking my gun; done it. You're overdramatising based on incomplete knowlege.





    It was very rare anyone used a weapon (knife) against me. My attitude totally changed. I could do exactly anything I wanted to a person once a deadly weapon was involved. Legally too. If you and I were in a bar, you used any aggressive or negative words towards me, and I knew you had a gun, in my view I could and should see you as an aggressively deadly threat and do all I could to seriously incapacitate you in the sense of very serious injury. I could kill you without fear of any legal repercusion even if you had done nothing at all. I could even do so just because I didn't like you or wanted to. I am talking about this not in just the "what if theory" voice most write opinions on. I suppose you could tell the police your side of the story that you hadn't reached for your gun if you were still alive. But you had a deadly weapon. I didn't. I win that argument.
    You have no idea what you're talking about. First I'm not that easy to incapacitate or kill, nor are a good many other people, tough guy.

    Second you don't seem to understand the law regarding what is and what isn't self-defense very well. You can't just off somebody because they're running their mouth and have a gun concealed on their person, generally. If they SAY they're going to shoot you, and then start to draw a gun, yes.

    I can't even cover all the errors in your post, but that's a start.

    G.

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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    So you're on board with the anti-incumbent movement come next election?

    Sweet!
    In Tennessee, sure.

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    Re: Tennessee lawmakers approve handguns in bars, override veto

    East Coast Grappling Championship?
    Export Credit and Guarantee Corporation of India Ltd.?

    Ok old man, you could take me with one arm tied behind your back.

    Tell us some war stories. Maybe I could learn something.

    They had food in the clubs you went to?

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