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Russia accuses Poland of starting Second World War

Harshaw

Harshaw

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Russia accuses Poland of starting Second World War - Telegraph

The Russian defence ministry posted a potentially inflammatory essay on its website which claimed Poland resisted Germany's ultimatums in 1939 only because it "wanted to obtain the status of a great power".

The lengthy diatribe, which is unlikely to be welcomed in Warsaw, also lashed out at Britain and France for giving the Poles "delusions of grandeur" by promising to intercede if the Nazis invaded.

"Anyone who has been minded to study the history of the Second World War knows it started because of Poland's refusal to meet Germany's requests," the statement read. "The German demands were very modest. You could hardly call them unfounded."
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Also from the story -- pending legislation:

Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, last month created a commission to identify foreign "revisionists" who disparage the country's prestige and "falsify" its history.

. . .

Under planned legislation, backed by Mr Medvedev, any Russian or foreigner who claims that the Soviet Union occupied Poland or the Baltic States could face up to five years in prison.
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The Russians are a bit late aren't they? But I bet the Germans will be relieved.
 
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Germany's "requests." Well that's a very nice way of putting it. Why don't they say that a guy with a knife "requests" my wallet when he threatens my life?
 
Well, Obama's in Europe.

How about if he makes a quick trip to Warsaw so he can apologize for the United States encouraging the Russians to make that secret treaty with Germany that split up Poland before hostilities began?
 
Germany did "request" Poland give back the land between Germany proper of the time and East Prussia....region around and south of Danzig....Thats fact.

Had it occured it would have ended the same way Czechoslovakia ended..Diplomatic coup beyond belief for Hitler followed by Germany and the USSR dividing up the remainder of Poland.




The Second World War started when France and the United Kingdom declared War on Germany because Germany declared war on Poland.
 
So what next will come out of the mouth of the almost humans eg Russians? Will the country that has more bufoons per capita than even the French do just shut up and go away. How sad that Russia a country that has the culure and leadership of a 3rd world country has nuclear weapons !!!!!!!
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Well, Obama's in Europe.

How about if he makes a quick trip to Warsaw so he can apologize for the United States encouraging the Russians to make that secret treaty with Germany that split up Poland before hostilities began?
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how about we criticize President Obama for real issues instaead of coming up with fantastic make beliieve.
 
Vader said:
Medvedev and his boyfriend, Putin are nothing more than a couple of hardlines asshats who need to be removed from office by any means necessary.
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What kind of "means" did you have in mind? Your solutions are always hilarious.
 
The Nazis started World War II by deception. The Hitlerian regime correctly assessed that Poland would never initiate hostilities, so they manufactured a phony incident on the German/Polish border in the guise of a German radio station attacked by Poles. This subterfuge is well documented by historians.
 
Medenev is Putins Sock puppet.
He is merely a filler loyal to and chosen by Putin.
Putin makes policy .. Medenev voices it.
Putin will run Russia for the remainder of his natural life if he so choses...he's very popular and IMO more comparable to a leader in the 30's then anyone in power anywhere else.
He's very smart, extremely nationalistic, popular, militaristic, controlled, and dangerous in his ambitions.
I think he will take Russia to seizing back as much of the Ukraine as he can.. by war if necessary.:beat
 
Triad said:
The Second World War started when France and the United Kingdom declared War on Germany because Germany declared war on Poland.
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WWII started because Germany crossed an international border with troops.

Hitler started the war. Don't know why people on the left want to argue otherwise. (Actually, it's perfectly transparent, but they need to retain at least a shred of their illusion of self-respect.)
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
WWII started because Germany crossed an international border with troops.

Hitler started the war. Don't know why people on the left want to argue otherwise. (Actually, it's perfectly transparent, but they need to retain at least a shred of their illusion of self-respect.)
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The left? Triad seems pretty conservative to me, and he's the only person I ever heard make that argument.
 
Triad said:
The Second World War started when France and the United Kingdom declared War on Germany because Germany declared war on Poland.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
WWII started because Germany crossed an international border with troops. Hitler started the war.
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Well, see, it wasn't a WORLD war when Hitler invaded Poland intent on killing all the Poles. It became a WORLD war when other nations got involved.

:doh
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
WWII started because Germany crossed an international border with troops.
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That is not technically true. WW2 started when France and UK declared war on Germany. The actual German attack on Poland was not the actual "start" per say. When Germany attacked Poland it was a conflict between those 2. When France and the UK declared war on Germany for doing so, then it became WW2.

Hitler started the war. Don't know why people on the left want to argue otherwise. (Actually, it's perfectly transparent, but they need to retain at least a shred of their illusion of self-respect.)
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LOL this coming from the side of the political spectrum that denies the holocaust.. yea right.

One can debate the technicalities of the start of the war, but no one on the left are denying that Germany were the root cause of WW2.

As for the article in the OP. I agree with it up to a point. He is very correct in that Poland did have "delusions of grandeur" because of the French and British backing. Even today that same "delusions of grandeur" has brought Poland into trouble which is probaly his real motivation by the essay.

That in turn did mean that they were willing to not bend to the German demands. This in turn meant that Germany attacked Poland and so on. If there had been no French and British backing then I doubt that Poland would have done what it did, unless they were totally brain dead.

But where I disagree with the Russian is his assessment that the German demands were "reasonable". But that is a whole other debate, but there is no denying that the country that ultimately started the aggressive actions was Germany and that lead to the declaration of war by France and the UK which then started WW2.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
WWII started because Germany crossed an international border with troops.

Hitler started the war. Don't know why people on the left want to argue otherwise. (Actually, it's perfectly transparent, but they need to retain at least a shred of their illusion of self-respect.)
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September 1 1939..Germany invades and Declares war on Poland. UK and France condemn demand withdraw in 72 hours.

3 later the UK and then France Declared War on Germany after giving them those 3 days to withdraw all troops from Poland.

Hitler was shocked they had declared war asking Ribbentrop after a brief moment of rather stunned silence on learning the UK had declared war.."what now?"

Learn your history. Or be like Glinda..ignorant.



1939: Britain and France declare war on Germany
Britain and France are at war with Germany following the invasion of Poland two days ago.

At 1115 BST the Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, announced the British deadline for the withdrawal of German troops from Poland had expired.

He said the British ambassador to Berlin had handed a final note to the German government this morning saying unless it announced plans to withdraw from Poland by 1100, a state of war would exist between the two countries.

Mr Chamberlain continued: "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received and consequently this country is at war with Germany."

Similarly the French issued an ultimatum, which was presented in Berlin at 1230, saying France would be at war unless a 1700 deadline for the troops' withdrawal was adhered to.

"I heard this voice saying we were now at war with Germany and at that moment the air raid sirens went"

He continued: "I ask them to stand calm, firm and united in this time of trial. The task will be hard. There may be dark days ahead and war can no longer be confined to the battlefield. But we can only do the right as we see the right and reverently commit our cause to God."

A War Cabinet of nine members has been set up with two new ministers, including Winston Churchill as First Lord of the Admiralty, the post he held at the outbreak of World War I. Lord Hankey becomes Minister without Portfolio.

Anthony Eden will take over as Dominions Secretary with special access to the War Cabinet. Mr Eden resigned from the post of Secretary of Foreign Affairs last year because he disagreed with the policy of appeasement.

The National Service (Armed Forces) Act has been passed making all men between 18 and 41 liable for conscription. The armed forces have already been mobilized for war and in July the first Territorial Army conscripts were called up.

Latest reports from Poland say the Germans have bombed a number of towns and cities, some with little or no strategic importance. About 1,500 are reported to have been killed or injured in the attacks on Friday and Saturday.

In his broadcast to the nation, Mr Chamberlain spoke of his sadness that "the long struggle to win peace" had failed.

He continued: "I cannot believe that there is anything more or anything different that I could have done and that would have been more successful."

Yesterday there was anger in the House of Commons over the Government's apparent delay in taking action against Germany.

Labour's deputy leader Arthur Greenwood had accused the Prime Minister of vacillating when "Britain and all that Britain stands for are in peril".

Today's declaration of war was received with rousing cheers. As Mr Chamberlain informed the House Britain could not take part in a five-power conference proposed by Italy while Poland was being invaded.

It has also been received with great enthusiasm in the Polish capital, Warsaw, where crowds took to the streets outside the British and French embassies cheering and singing.
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BBC ON THIS DAY | 3 | 1939: Britain and France declare war on Germany
 
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There are a lot of half-truths as well as outright lies being peddled from all points of view on this issue. To shrink a 50,000 page book down to one brief sentence: all major governments involved in WW2 are guilty to a degree, as are non-governmental movements like International Communism and Zionism. Also guilty are the people who supported those governments, like by paying their taxes, which is pretty much everyone. :(


All kings are foes of all the men they rule!
 
Triad said:
September 1 1939..Germany invades and Declares war on Poland. UK and France condemn demand withdraw in 72 hours.

3 later the UK and then France Declared War on Germany after giving them those 3 days to withdraw all troops from Poland.

Hitler was shocked they had declared war asking Ribbentrop after a brief moment of rather stunned silence on learning the UK had declared war.."what now?"

Learn your history. Or be like Glinda..ignorant.


Actually triad,

You might want to learn some history WWII actually started June 28th 1919 with the signing of The Treaty of Versailles at the end of WWI.

But I can take it a tad father if you like with the following German Aggressive moves,

1 In 1932 the German government announced it would no longer adhere to the treaty's military limitations, citing the Allies' violation of the treaty by failing to initiate military limitations on themselves as called for in the preamble of Part V of the Treaty of Versailles.

2 In March 1935 Adolf Hitler violated the Treaty of Versailles by introducing compulsory military conscription in Germany and rebuilding the armed forces. This included a new Navy (Kriegsmarine), the first full armoured divisions (Panzerwaffe), and an Air Force (Luftwaffe).

3 In June 1935 the United Kingdom effectively withdrew from the treaty with the signing of the Anglo-German Naval Agreement.

4 In March 1936 Hitler violated the treaty by reoccupying the demilitarized zone in the Rhineland.

5 In March 1938 Hitler violated the treaty by annexing Austria in the Anschluss.

6 In September 1938 Hitler with approval of France, Britain and Italy violated the Treaty by annexing Czechoslovak border regions, the Sudetenland

7 In March 1939 Hitler violated the treaty by occupying the rest of Czechoslovakia.


All this lead up tot he September 1st 1939 invasion of Poland by Germany.

Now you want to discuss WWII history great let's do it but lets also stick to the truth and facts.
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Scorpion89 said:
Actually triad,

You might want to learn some history WWII actually started June 28th 1919 with the signing of The Treaty of Versailles at the end of WWI.

But I can take it a tad father if you like with the following German Aggressive moves,

1 In 1932 the German government announced it would no longer adhere to the treaty's military limitations, citing the Allies' violation of the treaty by failing to initiate military limitations on themselves as called for in the preamble of Part V of the Treaty of Versailles.

2 In March 1935 Adolf Hitler violated the Treaty of Versailles by introducing compulsory military conscription in Germany and rebuilding the armed forces. This included a new Navy (Kriegsmarine), the first full armoured divisions (Panzerwaffe), and an Air Force (Luftwaffe).

3 In June 1935 the United Kingdom effectively withdrew from the treaty with the signing of the Anglo-German Naval Agreement.

4 In March 1936 Hitler violated the treaty by reoccupying the demilitarized zone in the Rhineland.

5 In March 1938 Hitler violated the treaty by annexing Austria in the Anschluss.

6 In September 1938 Hitler with approval of France, Britain and Italy violated the Treaty by annexing Czechoslovak border regions, the Sudetenland

7 In March 1939 Hitler violated the treaty by occupying the rest of Czechoslovakia.


All this lead up tot he September 1st 1939 invasion of Poland by Germany.

Now you want to discuss WWII history great let's do it but lets also stick to the truth and facts.
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WWII started on September 3, 1939.

Everything up to that was not World War II especially not stating it started in 1919 by using what is widely considered one of the root causes propelling Hitler to power amongst the Germans.

Last time the Germans themselves even bring up Versailles is after France Surrenders (June 23 1940)..."Righting the crime of Versailles" as the Germans saw it.


1. 1932 saw series of diplomatic back and forths followed by the five(UK, France, Germany, USA, Italy) party agreements..
January 30, 1933 Hitler takes power.
Mid 1933 a four party agreement was made. At which ironically the French ambassador said versailles was dead.

2. Third Reich officially announced it was re-arming on March 10 1935...already had started. But still observing the territorial requirements of Versailles as well as the Locarno agreement.

3. June 1935 UK withdrew effectively(but not officially) from Versailles by agreeing to the Anglo-German naval agreements.

4. Effectively ended the Versailles Treaty. Hitler bluffed and admitted that had the French stood up Germany would have had to run with its tails between its legs..but it worked.

5 Was part of Versailles to not allow Austria to unify with Germany..by the Anchluss nobody cared.

6, 7 Verasailles is long dead and everyone involved knew it.



You want to discuss WWII history or the road to it.... at least do so yourself instead of copy and pasting commentary from wikipedia.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles]Treaty of Versailles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Violations segment....

Anyway same source(wikipedia..World War II)

The start of the war is generally held to be September 1 1939, with the German invasion of Poland and subsequent declarations of war on Germany by most of the countries in the British Empire and Commonwealth, and by France
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I'm the kinda guy who reads a 3,500 pg book detailing the lives of Hitler and Stalin. Or the memoirs of Manstein. Unlike George C Scott I have actually read Rommels book..and DeGaulles as well. WWII in Europe(pacific to a lesser extent) has been my "thing" since I was a kid.
I'm not the kind of guy who reads the HS history book and thinks it in-depth.
IOW I've learned some WWII history..in fact I'd safely say Ive learned much much more then the average person ever will bother with.

Hitler did not expect the United Kingdom or France to back up Poland. When they did WWII began. Would have likely happened anyway..but that is how it began.


Deal with the historical reality. Or don't.
Whichever you chose I frankly don't care..just don't try to BS me.
 
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Triad said:
Medenev is Putins Sock puppet.
He is merely a filler loyal to and chosen by Putin.
Putin makes policy .. Medenev voices it.
Putin will run Russia for the remainder of his natural life if he so choses...he's very popular and IMO more comparable to a leader in the 30's then anyone in power anywhere else.
He's very smart, extremely nationalistic, popular, militaristic, controlled, and dangerous in his ambitions.
I think he will take Russia to seizing back as much of the Ukraine as he can.. by war if necessary.:beat
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Sock puppet indeed! Execellent choice of of words. Putin is a Stalinite asshole who needs to be removed from power. His influence needs to curbed. Medvedev is Russia's version of Geroge W. Bush; Putin is an unscrupulous power mad looney toon... sort of like Dick Cheney.
 
Triad said:
WWII started on September 3, 1939.

Everything up to that was not World War II especially not stating it started in 1919 by using what is widely considered one of the root causes propelling Hitler to power amongst the Germans.

Last time the Germans themselves even bring up Versailles is after France Surrenders (June 23 1940)..."Righting the crime of Versailles" as the Germans saw it.


1. 1932 saw series of diplomatic back and forths followed by the five(UK, France, Germany, USA, Italy) party agreements..
January 30, 1933 Hitler takes power.
Mid 1933 a four party agreement was made. At which ironically the French ambassador said versailles was dead.

2. Third Reich officially announced it was re-arming on March 10 1935...already had started. But still observing the territorial requirements of Versailles as well as the Locarno agreement.

3. June 1935 UK withdrew effectively(but not officially) from Versailles by agreeing to the Anglo-German naval agreements.

4. Effectively ended the Versailles Treaty. Hitler bluffed and admitted that had the French stood up Germany would have had to run with its tails between its legs..but it worked.

5 Was part of Versailles to not allow Austria to unify with Germany..by the Anchluss nobody cared.

6, 7 Verasailles is long dead and everyone involved knew it.



You want to discuss WWII history or the road to it.... at least do so yourself instead of copy and pasting commentary from wikipedia.
Treaty of Versailles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Violations segment....

Anyway same source(wikipedia..World War II)



I'm the kinda guy who reads a 3,500 pg book detailing the lives of Hitler and Stalin. Or the memoirs of Manstein. Unlike George C Scott I have actually read Rommels book..and DeGaulles as well. WWII in Europe(pacific to a lesser extent) has been my "thing" since I was a kid.
I'm not the kind of guy who reads the HS history book and thinks it in-depth.
IOW I've learned some WWII history..in fact I'd safely say Ive learned much much more then the average person ever will bother with.

Hitler did not expect the United Kingdom or France to back up Poland. When they did WWII began. Would have likely happened anyway..but that is how it began.


Deal with the historical reality. Or don't.
Whichever you chose I frankly don't care..just don't try to BS me.
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Triad,

You really want to have a go at me on WWII History bring it buddy you are no where even close to my League junior.

As for quote Winkki not even close Sir that was from the top of my head. WWII started with the signing of the Treaty all REAL WWII Historian agree that it was the Treaty that was the Cause of Germanys aggression.

Yes I have read General Rommels Bio it was a requirement at War College you might have heard of the place. Question have you ever read Rommel essay(s) on the use of tanks in a tactile battle or his thought's on how to used close air support in conjunting with a armour attack.
 
As for quote Winkki not even close Sir that was from the top of my head. WWII started with the signing of the Treaty all REAL WWII Historian agree that it was the Treaty that was the Cause of Germanys aggression.
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It's pretty arbitrary, and thus pointless, to argue when the definite "start" of a historical event takes place, as one can continually trace its roots further and further. Generally, the causes of war are not where the start of a war lies, for the reason I've just given, but declaration of war is used as the "start" of the event due to convenience's sake.

Everything you've said of course is factually true I just don't see the point in arguing something so arbitrary. I mean, why stop at the signing of Versailles? Why not say that it started at the start of WWI, as that is what caused the Treaty in the first place? Or keep going back further, to say that it started when the causes of WWI started? It's a pointless and stupid argument that you're getting way too worked up over.
 
Glinda said:
Well, see, it wasn't a WORLD war when Hitler invaded Poland intent on killing all the Poles. It became a WORLD war when other nations got involved.

:doh
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Triad said:
September 1 1939..Germany invades and Declares war on Poland. UK and France condemn demand withdraw in 72 hours.

3 later the UK and then France Declared War on Germany after giving them those 3 days to withdraw all troops from Poland.

Hitler was shocked they had declared war asking Ribbentrop after a brief moment of rather stunned silence on learning the UK had declared war.."what now?"

Learn your history. Or be like Glinda..ignorant.
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WTF? How is my statement incorrect? :confused:
 
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