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Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

Orius said:
Can you please cite which Kansas law(s) Tiller was violating?

As far as I know, his abortion procedure was not outlawed.
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The abortion of fetuses when the mother's life was not in danger or the fetus did not have a critical problem. Of course he was found not-guilty on all charges but that is just because the legal system is corrupt and he was sneaky about it.:roll:

Abortionist Tiller Likely to Escape Late Term Abortion Charges
The citizen-called grand jury that investigated late-term abortionist George R. Tiller was dismissed today without issuing an indictment.

Pro-life groups led a petition drive that resulted in the convening of the grand jury in January to investigate if Tiller's late-term abortion business violated the Kansas ban on post-viability abortions at 22 weeks gestation or later.

In the statement released by the Sedgwick County District Attorney's Office, the jury found that, "After six months of conducting an investigation that included hearing extensive witness testimony, reviewing volumes of documents and medical records of patients of Women's Health Care Services (Tiller's clinic), this Grand Jury has not found sufficient evidence to bring an indictment on any crime related to the abortion laws."

...

Newman alluded to his belief that Tiller's close relationship with Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius, bribery, and other corrupt practices are some of the reasons why the abortionist has not yet been brought to justice.

"Once again, we are suspicious that corrupt influences in the government, which have been influenced by Tiller's large financial involvement in Kansas politics, may have thwarted justice once again."

...

Furthermore, the Office of the District Attorney 's statement reads: "We doubt that any investigation into the practices and procedures of Dr. Tiller and the Women's Health Care Services will yield an outcome that will provide any basis for indictment."

Yet, Newman was adamant that OR will continue the fight.

"We will not stop seeking justice for the innocent victims of Tiller's late-term barbaric practice, and will continue to exercise every legal avenue to stop the shedding of innocent blood and bring Tiller to justice," he concluded.
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Tiller HAS to be a bad person, despite the fact that he didn't write or make the laws and is compliant with them, because if he wasn't then I can't justify my feelings of happiness for his death. :no:
 
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I don't see how a court ruling in his favor makes the system corrupt, unless you can prove that the judge or jury members were paid off or something. Otherwise, all I see is that you simply disagree with what the courts have to say.

People throw the words "corruption" and "judical activism" around way too much.
 
Orius said:
I don't see how a court ruling in his favor makes the system corrupt, unless you can prove that the judge or jury members were paid off or something. Otherwise, all I see is that you simply disagree with what the courts have to say.

People throw the words "corruption" and "judical activism" around way too much.
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Orius:

Sarcasm:
Main Entry:
sar·casm Listen to the pronunciation of sarcasm
Pronunciation:
\ˈsär-ˌka-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
Date:
1550

1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain2 a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b: the use or language of sarcasm

Scourge bolded sentences of the article to show that the accusers of Tiller were arguing he was wrong because they didn't like him. No evidence, just speculation which is really nothing more than a cover for dislike.

Also, his last sentence was dripping with sarcasm.
 
obvious Child said:
Orius:

Sarcasm:
Main Entry:
sar·casm Listen to the pronunciation of sarcasm
Pronunciation:
\ˈsär-ˌka-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
Date:
1550

1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain2 a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b: the use or language of sarcasm

Scourge bolded sentences of the article to show that the accusers of Tiller were arguing he was wrong because they didn't like him. No evidence, just speculation which is really nothing more than a cover for dislike.

Also, his last sentence was dripping with sarcasm.
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I wasn't responding to scourge. I was speaking in general. Note that I didn't quote him. Scourge replied to a request that was targetted at Jerry. I'm still waiting for Jerry's reply, if he ever does.
 
Orius said:
I wasn't responding to scourge. I was speaking in general. Note that I didn't quote him. Scourge replied to a request that was targetted at Jerry. I'm still waiting for Jerry's reply, if he ever does.
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Oh sorry. It did appear you were applying to Scourge. Especially since he replied to you and you replied after him. My apologies. Sarcasm often doesn't go as planned over the internet.
 
I'm sticking with what I said in an earlier thread.

One scumbag killed another scumbag. One dead, one in prison: net gain to society.

I don't support the actions of either man. One man performed acts which I consider not only immoral, but horrifically barbaric (partial-birth abortions). The other broke the law and committed premeditated murder without any sort of legal justification, and apparently is mentally ill besides.

As Wessex said, the fact that Tiller's late-term abortions were maybe, just barely legal, does not make him a hero or even a moral man. How someone performs partial birth abortions on viable babies and sleeps at night is beyond my imagination.


To me it isn't much different than when a Blood offs a Crip and goes to jail...two scumbags off the streets.


G.
 
Goshin said:
As Wessex said, the fact that Tiller's late-term abortions were maybe, just barely legal, does not make him a hero or even a moral man.
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I don't know who is calling him a hero or a moral man, but how does the fact he was not any of those justify someone killing him?

I know plenty of people that are not considered heroes or moral people, but that doesn't mean they deserved to be killed because of it.
 
TheNextEra said:
I don't know who is calling him a hero or a moral man, but how does the fact he was not any of those justify someone killing him?

I know plenty of people that are not considered heroes or moral people, but that doesn't mean they deserved to be killed because of it.
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To quote a Clint Eastwood movie, "The Unforgiven"...

Kid: "Well, I guess they had it comin'."
Clint: "Kid, we've all got it comin'."
__________

Sheriff: "I don't deserve this."
Clint, about to shoot him: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."


Tell ya what... if I'd been there in that church, packing a gun as usual; and I knew who Tiller was, and I saw that man pull a gun and aim at his back.... I probably would have stopped it if possible.
(Oh, wait, most states prohibit carry in churches, so I'd be disarmed and unlikely to be able to respond effectively in time. :doh)

Why? Because it was murder, and I don't condone murder: whether the perps unlawful murder of Tiller, or Tiller's under-color-of-law murder of viable babies. Everybody's got it coming, but some deserve it more than others.

IMHO, both these men are deserving of what they got, or are likely to get.

If I had my preference? If I had a magic wand I could wave and change what happened according to my wish? I'd wish the perp didn't murder Tiller, but that Tiller had a change of heart, quit doing what he was doing, and became a pro-life advocate. :)

We rarely get what we wish, don't we.


G.
 
talloulou said:
lolz.

I do agree with him though. There was lots of government corruption protecting Tiller from the law.
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What? Roe v. Wade was in tact. it is still legal to provide abortions. And he was drug into court 19 times and acquitted all times.

There was no government corruption protecting this man. This doctor was abiding by the law. The religious zealots are the wing nuts who committed murder here.
 
Goshin said:
To quote a Clint Eastwood movie, "The Unforgiven"...

Kid: "Well, I guess they had it comin'."
Clint: "Kid, we've all got it comin'."
__________

Sheriff: "I don't deserve this."
Clint, about to shoot him: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."


Tell ya what... if I'd been there in that church, packing a gun as usual; and I knew who Tiller was, and I saw that man pull a gun and aim at his back.... I probably would have stopped it if possible.
(Oh, wait, most states prohibit carry in churches, so I'd be disarmed and unlikely to be able to respond effectively in time. :doh)

Why? Because it was murder, and I don't condone murder: whether the perps unlawful murder of Tiller, or Tiller's under-color-of-law murder of viable babies. Everybody's got it coming, but some deserve it more than others.

IMHO, both these men are deserving of what they got, or are likely to get.

If I had my preference? If I had a magic wand I could wave and change what happened according to my wish? I'd wish the perp didn't murder Tiller, but that Tiller had a change of heart, quit doing what he was doing, and became a pro-life advocate. :)

We rarely get what we wish, don't we.


G.
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Abortion isn't murder. It's legal.
 
TheNextEra said:
I don't know who is calling him a hero or a moral man, but how does the fact he was not any of those justify someone killing him?

I know plenty of people that are not considered heroes or moral people, but that doesn't mean they deserved to be killed because of it.
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May you have 15,000 unwanted pregnancies in your next life...and have all the men who raped you leave you stranded to live in poverty.

Of course he was a moral man. He was following the law and providing a service to the women who sought him out.

In YOUR mind he's immoral. But then, not ALL believe in your war-mongering God, either.
 
Goshin said:
I'm sticking with what I said in an earlier thread.

One scumbag killed another scumbag. One dead, one in prison: net gain to society.
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To people trying to justify Tiller's murder:

You all are caught up in the anti-abortion propaganda about Tiller. But whenever we bring up the many, many severe medical issues that can confront women or underage girls, you all say... "I guess, I could understand that scenario, or that awful situation..."

But then a day later you're right back at it: "Tiller had it coming."

If you don't no shinola about the complicated medical issues a woman faces, the stop talking like you do.

If you've never had a child, get off this and every abortion thread because in my opinion your opinion is meaningless.

Again, I ask: how many pro-lifers have adopted a child? How many of you are foster parents? I've done both. Put down your asinine "baby killer" signs and do something with your lives instead of crying over a law that is never going to change.

These abortion threads go on and on... What a waste. I'm taking my daughter to breakfast. Out.:roll::2wave:
 
Goshin said:
IMHO, both these men are deserving of what they got, or are likely to get.

G.
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Tiller deserved to be murdered in cold blood for providing a service that is legal just because you somehow disapprove of it? I know this is hard for you guys, but there is no proof, no real strong evidence even, that Tiller did anything other than provide a needed service to women who had problems with their pregnancy. Far too many of you are willing to say a guy deserved to die based on hearsay.
 
hazlnut said:
To people trying to justify Tiller's murder:

You all are caught up in the anti-abortion propaganda about Tiller. But whenever we bring up the many, many severe medical issues that can confront women or underage girls, you all say... "I guess, I could understand that scenario, or that awful situation..."

But then a day later you're right back at it: "Tiller had it coming."

If you don't no shinola about the complicated medical issues a woman faces, the stop talking like you do.

If you've never had a child, get off this and every abortion thread because in my opinion your opinion is meaningless.

Again, I ask: how many pro-lifers have adopted a child? How many of you are foster parents? I've done both. Put down your asinine "baby killer" signs and do something with your lives instead of crying over a law that is never going to change.

These abortion threads go on and on... What a waste. I'm taking my daughter to breakfast. Out.:roll::2wave:
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I'm a single parent. Abortion was potentially an option when I found out she was pregnant; I chose life. I've spent the past 13 years parenting a child with dyslexia, 11 of them by myself. I think maybe I have some standing to speak.

I've love to adopt a child or two. In America, the legal costs are all but prohibitive unless you're quite well-heeled.

My life is quite busy with lots of important things, thank you. Keep your snide superiority to yourself please.

G.
 
Mercer said:
May you have 15,000 unwanted pregnancies in your next life...and have all the men who raped you leave you stranded to live in poverty.

Of course he was a moral man. He was following the law and providing a service to the women who sought him out.

In YOUR mind he's immoral. But then, not ALL believe in your war-mongering God, either.
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At last, an unbiased opinion. (/irony) :lol:

BTW If I'm not mistaken, TNE is relatively pro-choice, I think you misunderstood the context of his comment.

G.
 
Goshin said:
I'm a single parent. Abortion was potentially an option when I found out she was pregnant; I chose life. I've spent the past 13 years parenting a child with dyslexia, 11 of them by myself. I think maybe I have some standing to speak.

G.
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Just want to say that I find that admirable Goshin. Good job in taking care of your responsibility.
 
Mercer said:
Abortion isn't murder. It's legal.
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There was a time when slavery was legal also.

I think there will come a day when we look back on the abortion era with the same moral disgust as we now look back on slavery.


G.
 
Orius said:
Can you please cite which Kansas law(s) Tiller was violating?

As far as I know, his abortion procedure was not outlawed.
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Would you please cite where I said he stepped outside the letter of the law?
 
Goshin said:
To quote a Clint Eastwood movie, "The Unforgiven"...

Kid: "Well, I guess they had it comin'."
Clint: "Kid, we've all got it comin'."
__________

Sheriff: "I don't deserve this."
Clint, about to shoot him: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."


Tell ya what... if I'd been there in that church, packing a gun as usual; and I knew who Tiller was, and I saw that man pull a gun and aim at his back.... I probably would have stopped it if possible.
(Oh, wait, most states prohibit carry in churches, so I'd be disarmed and unlikely to be able to respond effectively in time. :doh)

Why? Because it was murder, and I don't condone murder: whether the perps unlawful murder of Tiller, or Tiller's under-color-of-law murder of viable babies. Everybody's got it coming, but some deserve it more than others.

IMHO, both these men are deserving of what they got, or are likely to get.

If I had my preference? If I had a magic wand I could wave and change what happened according to my wish? I'd wish the perp didn't murder Tiller, but that Tiller had a change of heart, quit doing what he was doing, and became a pro-life advocate. :)

We rarely get what we wish, don't we.


G.
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Wouldn't it have been great if his assassination were stopped by a pro-gun, anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion redneck :lol:

(I'm not sayin you are one, I'm just sayin)
 
Jerry said:
A perfect analogy.
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For years anti-abortionists tried to stop Doctor Tiller. Finally a bullet did | World news | The Guardian

The Article said:
Sarah Coe was one of the 250 to 300 women with late-stage pregnancies who seek help every year at Tiller's fortress-clinic. Coe, who talked to the Guardian using a pseudonym, had an abortion in Wichita two years ago this week. The confluence of the anniversary of her baby's and Tiller's death was, she said, very hard to bear.

At 22 weeks of gestation it was *discovered through ultrasound and other tests that the foetus of her first child had hydrocephalus – an excess of fluid on the brain. Its head was enlarged, and Coe and her husband were told that it would be born without brain function and would have no conscious life.

"We made a difficult decision that that wasn't the life we wanted for our child," she said. No doctor on the entire east coast of the US would accept her as the baby was beyond the 20 weeks needed for a foetus generally to become viable outside the womb. They were referred to Wichita and to Tiller.

She says the care they received at the clinic was exceptional. There was *counselling and support. "We were able to see our little boy after he was *delivered, no longer alive, and to touch him and say goodbye. They handled the cremation for us and we have his ashes in our home. It was the worst *experience in our lives and they made it so much easier to bear."
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I'm sure this quote's showed up in other threads on this, maybe even this thread, but I just felt it necessary to remind people that Tiller may have saved lives (many cases of hydrocephalus lead to severe injury for the mother, not to mention the general risk of 13-year-olds having kids in those "underage" cases people talk about) and certainly prevented tragedies along with whatever else he did.
 
Edify_Always_In_All_Ways said:
For years anti-abortionists tried to stop Doctor Tiller. Finally a bullet did | World news | The Guardian

I'm sure this quote's showed up in other threads on this, maybe even this thread, but I just felt it necessary to remind people that Tiller may have saved lives (many cases of hydrocephalus lead to severe injury for the mother, not to mention the general risk of 13-year-olds having kids in those "underage" cases people talk about) and certainly prevented tragedies along with whatever else he did.
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You're saying this is the typical case he was taken to court over?
 
Goshin said:
I've love to adopt a child or two. In America, the legal costs are all but prohibitive unless you're quite well-heeled.
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So, lack of money is why you don't adopt, is that it?

And how about the woman who was too poor to afford an abortion AND too poor to raise her child properly, so she decided to put it up for adoption? Why does YOUR lack of money trump HERS?

Hypocrite.
 
Glinda said:
So, lack of money is why you don't adopt, is that it?

And how about the woman who was too poor to afford an abortion AND too poor to raise her child properly, so she decided to put it up for adoption? Why does YOUR lack of money trump HERS?

Hypocrite.
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Nice debating tactic: I'm a hypocrite. How original... problem is you don't know me.

When my son was born we were poor as dirt. When my wife went off to pursue her own agenda, we were poor as dirt and, thanks largely to her, in debt.

She left me to raise a small child alone. I was a cop at the time, with prospects for promotion, and had to give that up so I could have a more "regular life" and be a better single father. I left a career and did what I had to do to support us. You have no idea the sacrifices I've made to take care of my son.

Care to call me a hypocrit again? I'm not talking out my *** Glinda, I've got the BTDT tee-shirt.
The problem lies with people who don't want to take responsibility for their actions, and do what is necessary to fulfill their responsibilities. I had no intention of having children anytime soon when I found out my wife was pregnant; I could probably have talked her into an abortion. I chose to deal with it and accept that my actions had resulted in a new and innocent life that I was responsible for.

I didn't ask to be saddled with a 2 year old by myself when she left, but I dealt with it and did the best I knew how. I gave up a lot for the sake of raising my son. I've gone without so that he could have what he needed.


There have been hard times, but I have not regretted it.


G.
 
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In addition to not being able to come up with $40,000 in legal fees and other costs, there is another reason I haven't tried to adopt:

Agencies have varying policies in dealing with single applicants. Some don't accept them at all. Others may put your application and request for a home study (a family assessment) on the back burner while waiting to find a couple who wants to adopt. The children offered to you may have disabilities that you cannot handle or be 12-years-old when you requested a toddler. If you pursue independent adoption (a path to adoption with no agency involvement) birth mothers may balk when they learn you are single.

Single men face even tougher scrutiny as they are asked intimate questions about their sexuality, motives, friends, and living arrangements. They may be qualified to parent and still be turned down.
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Single Parent Adoption -
 
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