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Thread: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

  1. #561
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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Again, what makes an animal less than a human. I'm not arguing on the side of PETA only saying that they believe the animal has a right to life as well.

    You don't agree with that, but again, legal doesn't mean right or moral.

    You think the animal less than human.

    Pro-choice thinks the rights of the woman > fetus.

    These are choices that we make. What makes your choice right and theirs wrong?
    All the talk about animal human equality and such aside, our laws don't govern an animal's right to life. They govern human right to life. And the question, past 22 weeks isn't a matter of fetus over mother or mother over fetus. It is a question of deciding person over person. By the time Tiller was doing these late term abortions, you have to consider what that fetus went through...and science tells us that a 22 week old fetus does go through the experience. It may not consciously "know" what is happening to it, but by that time, not knowing is merely a lack of experience for comparison. Its one and only experience is having a foreign object invade it's only place of safety, gripping it by the head with something cold and abrasive, yanking it's body into position and then a sharp stab in the head as it's skull is deflated and it dies.

    That's not right. I don't care how you look at it...whether it be a fetus or a baby, that isn't right if it's not absolutely necessary. It's barbaric, cruel, and evil.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    That might be an interesting(or not discussion.) but it isn't the point. Seeing as you are avoiding the question I take it roast fetus is not a delicacy you crave, and seeing as it is very different situation your comparison has no meaning. It is irrelevant.
    Again that is your SUBJECTIVE opinion.

    Rights, Morals, and legality are all subjective.

    You cannot point and say this is legal, so it is right and moral, just as you cannot point and say this is illegal, so it's not right and immoral.

    It's all subjective and society decides.

    Right now society has decided it is LEGAL for abortions to remain illegal (with restrictions) and that killing animals is legal.

    Neither makes it right or moral.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post

    This is proof that rights and morals are subjective.
    Perhaps, perhaps not. And you mean social as much as subjective.

    It doesn't however prove that killing 7 month old fetuses is the same in our current moral climate as killing a pig humanely for food.

    They are clearly very different. We prefer humans and tend to wish to protect innocent ones and we eat animals whatever the ultimate metaphysical justification for this.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    So? that does not mean he wasn't a monster.

    Do you support late-term abortions when the mother is not in serious danger
    ?

    No. All abortions are a private sadness IMP

    Now, on to your point which is really at the heart of all these thread

    I cannot see how they could be anything but monstrous. This does not excuse his murder but it does mean he was a monster if he was doing this.
    Then what does it do?


    (not you but others on these threads)
    What is the point of posting the gory details of an abortion? What is the point of posting every pro-life accusation thrown at Tiller, truthful or otherwise? Why do this excetp to excuse his murder?

    (to you)
    Why call him a monster? In our society, he is not a monster. He was a Doctor performing a medical procedure. Why use that type of extreme language when discussing his murder? The only reason I can think of is to excuse, in some way, his murder. We are all for the doing away with of 'monsters'. Right. Serial killers? Mass murders? All Monsters that we would be better off without, right? However, in the state of Kansas, Tiller was only controversial doctor. Extreme, hyperbolic language is not fact. Facts are fact. Tiller was innocent of any crime against our society and he was murdered. That's the fact, jack.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    All the talk about animal human equality and such aside, our laws don't govern an animal's right to life.
    Kill your neighbors dog and find out what happens to you.

    Yes, our government has decided that animals have a right to life, if we choose it.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Kill your neighbors dog and find out what happens to you.

    Yes, our government has decided that animals have a right to life, if we choose it.
    That's a property issue. But you are correct, we do set limits on animal cruelty.

    Why gloss over the cruelty I described?

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Again that is your SUBJECTIVE opinion.

    Rights, Morals, and legality are all subjective.

    You cannot point and say this is legal, so it is right and moral, just as you cannot point and say this is illegal, so it's not right and immoral.

    It's all subjective and society decides.

    Right now society has decided it is LEGAL for abortions to remain illegal (with restrictions) and that killing animals is legal.

    Neither makes it right or moral.
    Firstly you are confusing the subjective and social and secondly you seem to be agreeing with our point. You seem to be arguing about irrelevancies and grasping to connect them for some strange attempt to justify late-term abortions.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Perhaps, perhaps not. And you mean social as much as subjective.

    It doesn't however prove that killing 7 month old fetuses is the same in our current moral climate as killing a pig humanely for food.
    And it doesn't prove that it isn't the same either.

    Again, our society decides this. There was a time in Egyptian culture that killing cats of the pharaohs was punishable by death. Of course the exception was if the pharaoh died, then it was ok.

    It is all subjective. Our laws, morals, rights and wrongs.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Firstly you are confusing the subjective and social and secondly you seem to be agreeing with our point. You seem to be arguing about irrelevancies and grasping to connect them for some strange attempt to justify late-term abortions.
    Not at all, it is LEGAL right now for abortions to happen. It is LEGAL for slaughter houses to exist. Neither one of them are moral or right by them being legal.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    ?

    No. All abortions are a private sadness IMP[
    Would you allow the above to legal.

    Then what does it do?
    Comment on Tiller.

    I would not have wanted Ted Bundy murdered the night before his execution but that doesn't mean he wasn't a murderer.

    (not you but others on these threads)
    What is the point of posting the gory details of an abortion? What is the point of posting every pro-life accusation thrown at Tiller, truthful or otherwise? Why do this excetp to excuse his murder?
    Show he may have been a monster.
    (to you)
    Why call him a monster? In our society, he is not a monster. He was a Doctor performing a medical procedure. Why use that type of extreme language when discussing his murder? The only reason I can think of is to excuse, in some way, his murder. We are all for the doing away with of 'monsters'. Right. Serial killers? Mass murders? All Monsters that we would be better off without, right? However, in the state of Kansas, Tiller was only controversial doctor. Extreme, hyperbolic language is not fact. Facts are fact. Tiller was innocent of any crime against our society and he was murdered. That's the fact, jack.
    If he was killing late-term festuses when the mother was not in serious danger he is a monster.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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