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Thread: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    I have a question for everyone who has made claims about Tiller being a baby killer in regard to these late term abortions.


    Where are you getting your information regarding the reasons these women had for the late term abortions/Tiller performing them?

    That's it. That's my question. I really, really want a response.


    I participated in another thread on this issue and I didn't see any links to the reasons for the late term abortions. I just see accusations thrown around that Tiller was a baby killer and destroyed perfectly sound babies, which implies that the women who sought out his expertise were just looking to abort their late term baby for kicks.

    It must be that Tiller and the women who had late term abortions were all just into it for the sake of killing these perfectly sound babies or there were medical reasons behind it.


    Which sounds more reasonable?




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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    It makes no difference which, yours and his are different, because he doesn't consider a fetus a baby, and you do.



    But other Americans don't get to have views because yours are so accurate ?

    It isn't about your religion, it is about respecting others right to decide theirs.



    Pray tell. When did I ever say other American's "don't get to have views" because mine is so accurate? I'll save you the trouble. I didn't. In fact, I recently stated, and have always said, (even on this thread perhaps, see post# 309,) that my views are my own and even though I am firm in my views I do not feel I have any right shoving my views down the throats of others.

    And no, it isn't about my religion. I do not have a religion. Strike two.

    I think, underneath it all, in your attempts to bait me into an abortion argument, you FAILED simply because you didn't do your background check on my positions. OR, you must be thinking about somebody entirely different which is an honest mistake.

    If you want to address me, fine. But please come better prepared. I hate it when I'm the one who has to tell the guy at the party that he is walking around with his zipper down. It embarasses us both.
    Last edited by Captain America; 06-08-09 at 03:01 PM.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    I have a question for everyone who has made claims about Tiller being a baby killer in regard to these late term abortions.


    Where are you getting your information regarding the reasons these women had for the late term abortions/Tiller performing them?

    That's it. That's my question. I really, really want a response.


    I participated in another thread on this issue and I didn't see any links to the reasons for the late term abortions. I just see accusations thrown around that Tiller was a baby killer and destroyed perfectly sound babies, which implies that the women who sought out his expertise were just looking to abort their late term baby for kicks.

    It must be that Tiller and the women who had late term abortions were all just into it for the sake of killing these perfectly sound babies or there were medical reasons behind it.


    Which sounds more reasonable?


    I'll answer that. The state of Kansas senate passed legislation which would require Tiller to report actual reasons for the post viability abortions he performed. Dr. Tiller did not want to report actual reasons. The governor of the time (our current Obama appointed Secretary of Health), who accepted and even got caught lying about Tiller contributions vetoed said legislation.

    So, essentially while Kansas law currently has a 22 week limit on abortions and late term abortions may only be done when there is an irreversible maternal health threat never does the dr. have to list in the chart or report to the state what that irreversible health threat was. Never. So essentially as long as a dr. is willing to do the abortion you are good to go, there is basically no limit at all in Kansas other than a drs. conscious.

    The governor listed 2 reasons for her veto of the legislation. The first one was absolute b.s.: privacy. The senate passed legislation was not asking for copies of patient charts or names of patients. Currently drs. just list gestational age, age of the mother, and 2 drs. sig. The new legislation would have required they report gestational age, age of mother, 2 drs. sigs, and the diagnosis which met the irreversible health threat condition. Names were never an issue so the privacy factor was complete and utter b.s.

    Her other reason for her veto was lawsuits. She had no interest in having Dr. Tiller forced into court to defend every late term abortion he did that failed to meet the language of irreversible health threat probably because there would be so many. But still, a b.s. excuse.

  4. #354
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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I'll answer that. The state of Kansas senate passed legislation which would require Tiller to report actual reasons for the post viability abortions he performed. Dr. Tiller did not want to report actual reasons. The governor of the time (our current Obama appointed Secretary of Health), who accepted and even got caught lying about Tiller contributions vetoed said legislation.

    So, essentially while Kansas law currently has a 22 week limit on abortions and late term abortions may only be done when there is an irreversible maternal health threat never does the dr. have to list in the chart or report to the state what that irreversible health threat was. Never. So essentially as long as a dr. is willing to do the abortion you are good to go, there is basically no limit at all in Kansas other than a drs. conscious.

    The governor listed 2 reasons for her veto of the legislation. The first one was absolute b.s.: privacy. The senate passed legislation was not asking for copies of patient charts or names of patients. Currently drs. just list gestational age, age of the mother, and 2 drs. sig. The new legislation would have required they report gestational age, age of mother, 2 drs. sigs, and the diagnosis which met the irreversible health threat condition. Names were never an issue so the privacy factor was complete and utter b.s.

    Her other reason for her veto was lawsuits. She had no interest in having Dr. Tiller forced into court to defend every late term abortion he did that failed to meet the language of irreversible health threat probably because there would be so many. But still, a b.s. excuse.

    I understand that you're against Tiller and late term abortions but you did not answer my question and I don't feel like being side tracked.

    You were one of the posters insisting that Tiller was murdering babies. I'm asking where you got your information from. What sources exists that explain the reasons for the late term abortions?

    As I said above, either he and the women who had late term abortions were doing it for kicks or else there were medical reasons. Which is it?



    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    I understand that you're against Tiller and late term abortions but you did not answer my question and I don't feel like being side tracked.

    You were one of the posters insisting that Tiller was murdering babies. I'm asking where you got your information from. What sources exists that explain the reasons for the late term abortions?

    As I said above, either he and the women who had late term abortions were doing it for kicks or else there were medical reasons. Which is it?

    You're being obtuse intentionally.

    There is a law which states there must be a diagnosis which accounts for an irreversible maternal health threat in order to perform abortions after 22 weeks.

    There was political foul play, a corrupt governor, a corrupt DA, a fired state prosecutor, etc. all in an effort that Dr. Tiller never be held accountable to the current law on the books.

    Perhaps for you it is ok to just say well Dr. Tiller doesn't need to be accountable and his word is all the ok you need to see that he met the current laws on the books.

    For me and many others that is unacceptable.

    If he didn't operate outside the law then there would be no need to dance around the legislation. He'd happily list for each patient what the irreversible health threat was. Why would such a request be viewed as so problematic that he had to pay off a governor to obtain a veto?

    The state had hired a dr. to review Dr. Tillers records. That dr. is on file stating that the records showed no irreversible health threat for many of the women Tiller performed late term abortions on.

    However since the governor made it so Tiller didn't have to list any accountable reason he could never be tried on any charges regarding whether or not an abortion met the required current law.
    Last edited by talloulou; 06-08-09 at 03:19 PM.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mviFMpy_sBU]YouTube - Dr. Tiller's Abortion Records Exposed[/ame]

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    You're being obtuse intentionally.

    There is a law which states there must be a diagnosis which accounts for an irreversible maternal health threat in order to perform abortions after 22 weeks.

    There was political foul play, a corrupt governor, a corrupt DA, a fired state prosecutor, etc. all in an effort that Dr. Tiller never be held accountable to the current law on the books.

    Perhaps for you it is ok to just say well Dr. Tiller doesn't need to be accountable and his word is all the ok you need to see that he met the current laws on the books.

    For me and many others that is unacceptable.

    If he didn't operate outside the law then there would be no need to dance around the legislation. He'd happily list for each patient what the irreversible health threat was. Why would such a request be viewed as so problematic that he had to pay off a governor to obtain a veto?

    The state had hired a dr. to review Dr. Tillers records. That dr. is on file stating that the records showed no irreversible health threat for many of the women Tiller performed late term abortions on.

    However since the governor made it so Tiller didn't have to list any accountable reason he could never be tried on any charges regarding whether or not an abortion met the required current law.

    You still didn't answer Missy's question.

    You allege, without much (if anything) in the way of evidence of some conspiracy to keep Tiller from being held legally accountable for . . . whatever, but you haven't provided any evidence for the reasons behind the late term abortions (which is what Missy was alluding to).

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    You're being obtuse intentionally.
    Since I feel the same way about you and your responses on this subject, we're on even footing.


    The state had hired a dr. to review Dr. Tillers records. That dr. is on file stating that the records showed no irreversible health threat for many of the women Tiller performed late term abortions on.

    How many is many? That's what I want to know. How many is that? .375%, 1%, 10%, 50%, 100%????

    Also, how many late term abortions were performed because the baby would have died shortly after birth? How many?


    The answer appears to be that you don't know, Talloulou. And it goes to the heart of my earlier post. You, and other posters like you, who are making outrageous claims about Tiller AND the women who had late term abortions just glomped on to an emotional tear about viable babies when you have NO IDEA.

    NONE. ZERO. ZILTCH



    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
    You still didn't answer Missy's question.

    You allege, without much (if anything) in the way of evidence of some conspiracy to keep Tiller from being held legally accountable for . . . whatever, but you haven't provided any evidence for the reasons behind the late term abortions (which is what Missy was alluding to).
    Dr. Tiller does not need to give reasons. So there are no reasons ever brought before the courts.

    The one dr. who was brought in by the state to review Tillers charts has gone on record multiple times stating that Tiller does not meet the criteria of current Kansas legislation requiring an irreversible health threat. The prosecutor who hired this dr. was fired.

    Currently no dr. in Kansas needs ever to list any reason for a late term abortion if he doesn't want to. Thus the 22 week cut off law is rendered essentially moot.

    While Missy may be happy to know I can't give her statistics she ought to be asking why she's not disturbed that she can't either. That there are none.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    Since I feel the same way about you and your responses on this subject, we're on even footing.





    How many is many? That's what I want to know. How many is that? .375%, 1%, 10%, 50%, 100%????

    Also, how many late term abortions were performed because the baby would have died shortly after birth? How many?


    The answer appears to be that you don't know, Talloulou. And it goes to the heart of my earlier post. You, and other posters like you, who are making outrageous claims about Tiller AND the women who had late term abortions just glomped on to an emotional tear about viable babies when you have NO IDEA.

    NONE. ZERO. ZILTCH

    But you don't know either and seem quite satisfied with that. No matter how you feel about abortion you should be able to recognize when people are dancing around the laws. Why does it not concern you that there is a current law in Kansas which outlaws abortion without an irreversible health threat to the mother while simultaneously no dr. ever has to state a single reason, not one, for any late term abortion??

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