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Thread: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

  1. #291
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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    To you Goshin. I think you universalized something that belongs exclusively to your son.

    not trying to fight or be flippant, just a clarification.
    Ah. I understand. When you quoted Glinda then addressed someone unspecified (but sounded like me) it was a bit confusing.

    In a sense you are correct, that "connection" that was made the day of the first ultrasound was indeed between me and my unborn son, and was in a way very special and unique.

    Yet, is a baby a baby because the parents believe it is? Does the baby's personhood cease if the parents cease to regard it as such? This doesn't make sense to me. Things are what they are, and people are people whether you believe they are or not.

    To resort to a tired cliche, there was a time when most whites didn't consider nonwhites to be "people" per se...but they were anyway, weren't they?

    I can decline to regard the law of gravity, and it will pull me just the same.

    When I was very young and had known no Asians, it was easy to regard them as strange beings, almost like aliens... as if they were not quite "real". Once I had known one Asian, and realized that person as a person, I internalized the concept of "all Asians as people much like me".

    I was once wishy-washy on the subject of abortion, as I said. I didn't quite have the concept of the unborn-as-people really internalized. Then I saw my son on the ultrasound and knew him as a real person... on that day, in the same manner as Asians above, I knew that class of humans called "the unborn" as all being persons, based on knowing one as a person.

    Realizing on a level deeper than mere intellectualization that the unborn are humans deserving of human consideration, I could never again view abortion in a disintrested manner.

    Disagree with me if you wish, I was simply explaining how I came to believe what I believe on the topic.

    G.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is a sadly large element within the anti-abortion movement that does use vigilantism to make their points. Harassment and threats are a major portion of working at an abortion clinic.

    I have seen reports on TV that this person has violated Federal laws many times over the years in reguards to harrassment a vadalism of abortion clinics, and was reported to the FBI on several occasions and they refused to do anything about it.

  3. #293
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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    I have seen reports on TV that this person has violated Federal laws many times over the years in reguards to harrassment a vadalism of abortion clinics, and was reported to the FBI on several occasions and they refused to do anything about it.
    If that is accurate, it would be particularly sad. Something needs to be done about the terrorist tactics used by elements within the anti-abortion movement.

  4. #294
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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    If that is accurate, it would be particularly sad. Something needs to be done about the terrorist tactics used by elements within the anti-abortion movement.
    Yes but something has to be done about late-term abortions, at least those when the mother is not in serious danger.

    I simply don't understand how late-term abortions helps the pro-legal abortion movement.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Yes but something has to be done about late-term abortions, at least those when the mother is not in serious danger.

    It's called the law, proved what he did was wrong. That is the problem, the anti-abortion crowd COULDN'T. Some may say the mother wasn't in danger, but they can't be proven wrong.

    So, because they couldn't one man felt he should kill the abortion doctor.

    So what does that say? When the right doesn't get what they want, it is ok to kill someone over it.

    Sorry, but it hurts the Pro-life crowd more than it hurts the Pro-Choice crowd.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's called the law, proved what he did was wrong. That is the problem, the anti-abortion crowd COULDN'T. Some may say the mother wasn't in danger, but they can't be proven wrong.

    So, because they couldn't one man felt he should kill the abortion doctor.

    So what does that say? When the right doesn't get what they want, it is ok to kill someone over it.

    Sorry, but it hurts the Pro-life crowd more than it hurts the Pro-Choice crowd.
    What is your point? The law can be wrong, laws can be changed.

    Late term abortion for anything but the serious health of the mother, and perhaps debatably for completely unviable fetuses who are brain-dead and such, are not a good place for the legal abortionists to fight on.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 06-07-09 at 01:10 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What is your point? The law can be wrong, laws can be changed.

    Late term abortion for anything but the serious health of the mother, and perhaps debatably for completely unviable fetuses who are brain-dead and such, are not a good place for the legal abortionists to fight on.
    This is kinda the point. If there is a problem with the law, change it. I have no problem with that, though don't expect my support in actually changing it in this case. The problem is that, while attempting to change the law, those who are acting within the law are being the victim of what can only be described as terrorism. The further problem is the attitude that some one who is acting within the law, doing what he feels is right, is some kind of monster and his murder is somehow deserved.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What is your point? The law can be wrong, laws can be changed.
    Yes, just like the law is wrong for Gay Marriage being illegal, but you and many others still say it is the right thing to be against gay marriage. But regardless gay marriage is illegal, that doesn't mean I am going to kill people that are against gay marriage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Late term abortion for anything but the serious health of the mother, and perhaps debatably for completely unviable fetuses who are brain-dead and such, are not a good place for the legal abortionists to fight on.
    And those people could not prove this doctor did not do that.

    Again, why does that mean this doctor deserved to be killed?

    No matter what you say, a law being wrong in the U.S. does not give the right for people to kill over it.

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes, just like the law is wrong for Gay Marriage being illegal, but you and many others still say it is the right thing to be against gay marriage. But regardless gay marriage is illegal, that doesn't mean I am going to kill people that are against gay marriage.
    What? Firstly I did not justify the murder of Tiller and secondly I'm lukewarmly supportive of GM or at least civil unions.



    And those people could not prove this doctor did not do that.
    As I understand it the DA was removed and one that would not properly carry on the prosecution replaced him, but that is no excuse for his murder.

    Again, why does that mean this doctor deserved to be killed?
    When did I say it did?
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What? Firstly I did not justify the murder of Tiller and secondly I'm lukewarmly supportive of GM or at least civil unions.



    As I understand it the DA was removed and one that would not properly carry on the prosecution replaced him, but that is no excuse for his murder.

    When did I say it did?
    Ok so basically you are saying Tiller is guilty and your support and evidence is what?

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