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Indeed, it sends chills down your spin doesn't it.
That is why parties like the UKIP, BNP and other far right nationalist often racist parties get high numbers.
In Britain they simply aren't. The people are against the current course of the EU, the three major parties simply have various levels of support for it, so nothing can be done. But yes in some EU nations the people do strangely seem to be for it.Anytime someone creates a central governing authority, it slowly grabs more and more power. Over time the EU will be the central, powerful government and the separate nations will merely be states like the U.S. has.
I never understand why people are so willing to give up their own sovereignty.
There is no logical reason for it.
In Britain they simply aren't. The people are against the current course of the EU, the three major parties simply have various levels of support for it, so nothing can be done. But yes in some EU nations the people do strangely seem to be for it.
Harry Guerrilla said:Anytime someone creates a central governing authority, it slowly grabs more and more power. Over time the EU will be the central, powerful government and the separate nations will merely be states like the U.S. has.
I never understand why people are so willing to give up their own sovereignty.
There is no logical reason for it.
Harry Guerrilla said:Anytime someone creates a central governing authority, it slowly grabs more and more power. Over time the EU will be the central, powerful government and the separate nations will merely be states like the U.S. has.
I never understand why people are so willing to give up their own sovereignty.
There is no logical reason for it.
I hate to say it but I suspect all the countries of Europe will loose their sovereignty soon enough.
It reminds me of the Federalists vs. the Anti-Federalists in a way.
I hate to say it but I suspect all the countries of Europe will loose their sovereignty soon enough.
It reminds me of the Federalists vs. the Anti-Federalists in a way.
I agree, even in Eurosceptic Britain . There are differences obviously; the nations are more unique than the state but on the other hand there is not that very cautious idea towards centralisation and the usurpation of the power of the state by the central gov't that even many of the federalists shared.
It's not just Europe. In North America, the governments of the U.S., Canada and Mexico formed the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America behind closed doors. There were massive protests and the protests got shut down. This agreement loosened border trade, allows "security" to be shared (including military crossing borders), and was completely undemocratic. Aside from the singular leaders of these countries, Congress, Canadian Parliament, and the Mexican cabinet did not have any vote on the matter.
I swear... these people who sign these things into law must work for a higher organization. I know that sounds like conspiracy theory, but I can't figure out what goes on in their heads. It's like they are operating on an agenda completely separate from government.
Indeed, democracy of the representative kind(and the direct but that is a different story.) has a lot of dangers inherent in it.I'm pretty well convinced that it is the natural order of things.
As long as democratic voting exists the cycle will continue.
Centralization, fracturing, repeat.
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Heard some rumors about the far-right gaining power in Europe.
Is there any truth to this?
I'll just say I disagree. He seems about as rightwing as David Cameron or even Blair, although I'm not a complete expert on him.Sarkozy (President) is already very right wing
Well obviously we've had the Bretton woods institutions for 60 years and they can't be discounted.It's not just Europe.
I'll just say I disagree. He seems about as rightwing as David Cameron or even Blair, although I'm not a complete expert on him.
In most French medias he is seen as very right wing, that's why Le Pen got so few votes when Sarkozy was elected
He doesn't seem that way to me, particularly in how he has acted but I'm no expert.
..... I would like to see a "united states of europe" complete with its own army that includes Turkey
Personally I think it also reflects how people see the EU parliament. They still think that the EU parliament has no power (aka the parliamen 15 years ago), which is only partly true. While most power in the EU still resides with the member governments, the EU parliament does have its say, especially when it comes to the budget and EU commissioners. But yea it is not a "true" parliament like most countries have.
The EU Parliament, in my view, is unlawful in the first place. It received mandate from the different governments in the EU, but the constituents of those governments had no say, no vote. Now they are expected to vote for members of this new government. Participation in it is already being coerced.
I was hearing during the build up to these elections that something like 75% to 80% of our laws now come from the EU. It is certainly time to take notice and to be properly informed.
The only parties which even bothered to send me a leaflet before this election were the BNP and UKIP.
UKIP are not a far-right nationalist group. What's more I suspect you know that. The attempt to tarnish a simply Eurosceptic, avowedly libertarian party by calling it far-right and linking it to the BNP is frankly rather pathetic.
Now that is clear cut fear mongering. 75% to 80%? What the hell do they base that on? I guess that 75% of our laws made are on agriculture...
I'm saying they're not a far-right nationalist group, which was your original unsupported assertion. The term nationalist is vague.Tarnish? So you are saying that the United Kingdom Independence Party are not a nationalist group?
So? The Tories are supposedly as well. Only to the hyperpartisan is rightwing the same as the far-right like the BNP.They claim to be a libertarian political party, in other words they cant or wont call themselves conservatives but in essence they are right wing.
Is this supposed to prove your previous hyperpartisan slur? It doesn't even attempt to deal with it.They call themselves "non-racist" to distinguish themselves from BNP, but we all know that in Europe the racist parties are almost universal right wing parties, and many of them are hiding behind a legitimacy of calling themselves "non racist". Le Pen's party calls it self as non racist.. and do you seriously believe they are?
Look at how people have transformed his political posters:
the real poster: "together, everything is possible"
then it became: "together without the poors, the foreigners, the left, the extreme left, the communists, the gays, the disabled, the journalists, the blacks, the arabs, and the guy who stole my wife, everything is possible"
"Together, everything is possible. Even the worse"
:rofl
Its not my question but if I may, I would like to see a "united states of europe" complete with its own army that includes Turkey
Yes.Including Britain?
I'd take to the barricades before I let that happen.