• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama seeks to change Muslim perceptions of U.S.

Polynikes

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
522
Reaction score
163
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Obama seeks to change Muslim perceptions of U.S. | U.S. | Reuters


Addressing the world's more than 1 billion Muslims from Cairo, Obama called for a "new beginning" in ties between Washington and the Islamic world in his speech that also tackled grievances over two U.S.-led wars and tensions over Iran



Full text of the speech here:

Prepared text of Obama's speech to Muslims | U.S. | Reuters


Who do you all think? This particular paragraph was a little unnerving as he basically gives Hamas legitimacy, even though they are still a terrorist organization according to the State Dept.

Now is the time for Palestinians to focus on what they can build. The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.
 
I loved it.
Hamas was elected, i may hate them but you do not remove them by pretending they do not exist. Bush tried that and it strengthened it.

To put it simply, President Obama has this absolutely amazing ability to say what the Muslims want to hear and simultaneously support Israel and tell the Arabs and Muslims a few home truths.
I was almost clapping when he was talking about womens right and Muslim abuses of human rights and gave us a much needed reminder on what the Qu'ran said because it seems we have forgotten ...
 
Last edited:
I am not overly concerned with the paragraph in that while he recognized Hamas, he also put restrictions on what he felt they should do. I saw it as essentially saying "play by the rules and we will recognize you", which I think is fine.
 
To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.

Polynikes,

Those terms are not new. They were set forth by the Madrid Quartet (UN, U.S., Russia, and European Union) as the basis for giving Hamas a seat at the negotiating table following Hamas' January 2006 electoral gains.

Hamas has rejected such terms in the past. Following President Obama's speech, Hamas reaffirmed its rejectionist position against a two-state solution. The BBC quoted Ayman Taha, a Gaza-based Hamas spokesman as follows:

Speaking about a policy of pursuing a war against extremism and working towards two states for peoples on Palestinian lands is no different from the policy of his predecessor, George W Bush.

In other words, Hamas was reaffirming its position of seeking Israel's elimination and a single Arab state in the historic Palestine region.
 
In other words, Hamas was reaffirming its position of seeking Israel's elimination and a single Arab state in the historic Palestine region.

And it is a impossible solution.
Recognition of both states need to happen but before even thinking about a Palestinian state occuring, Hamas needs to go but if it's removed by external forces like Israel or US then nothing will change and another Hamas will come. We need the Palestinians themselves to realise Hamas stands in the way of peace. And a actual genuine replacement to be there, Fatah is little better.
 
Last edited:
I loved it.
Hamas was elected, i may hate them but you do not remove them by pretending they do not exist. Bush tried that and it strengthened it.

To put it simply, President Obama has this absolutely amazing ability to say what the Muslims want to hear and simultaneously support Israel and tell the Arabs and Muslims a few home truths.
I was almost clapping when he was talking about womens right and Muslim abuses of human rights and gave us a much needed reminder on what the Qu'ran said because it seems we have forgotten ...

This reminds me of the description of his tenure as Editor of the Harvard Law Review. Members from opposing points of view each said they thought Obama was agreeing with their points of view.
 
Obama seeks to change Muslim perceptions of U.S. | U.S. | Reuters


Addressing the world's more than 1 billion Muslims from Cairo, Obama called for a "new beginning" in ties between Washington and the Islamic world in his speech that also tackled grievances over two U.S.-led wars and tensions over Iran



Full text of the speech here:

Prepared text of Obama's speech to Muslims | U.S. | Reuters


Who do you all think? This particular paragraph was a little unnerving as he basically gives Hamas legitimacy, even though they are still a terrorist organization according to the State Dept.

Now is the time for Palestinians to focus on what they can build. The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.

It's the same kind of things Western leaders have said over and over and over and over and over and over again. Nothing changes. This will come to nothing, just like everything else always has.

But now the usual round of self-satisfied back-patting will commence.
 
This reminds me of the description of his tenure as Editor of the Harvard Law Review. Members from opposing points of view each said they thought Obama was agreeing with their points of view.

And that is the key to getting something done.

You need to make it look like both sides got what they wanted and that you came off with the better deal.
 
And that is the key to getting something done.

You need to make it look like both sides got what they wanted and that you came off with the better deal.

I think both sides have valid POVs
 
Anyone else noticed how the crowd was only clapping when Obama spoke in favor of the Palestinians?
Nobody clapped when he asked them to stop denying the holocaust, stop the terrorism or recognize Israel's right to exist.
 
Anyone else noticed how the crowd was only clapping when Obama spoke in favor of the Palestinians?
Nobody clapped when he asked them to stop denying the holocaust, stop the terrorism or recognize Israel's right to exist.

Nobody said the change would be immediate.

I personally think Muslims or at least the leaders should immediately:
Stop broadcasting things on Israel in a highly biased and almost anti semetic way [In some cases] as it has the ability of forming peoples opinion on Israel and achieves little.
Stop teaching in schools to deny the Holocaust or portrayals of US/Israel - Perhaps even start a curriculum on Nakba and with it, the history of Israel.
Open new media stations which carry a moderate message
Start condemning terrorism more, Saudis to stop funding the opening of Mosques around the Muslim world [and in some cases the west] with crazy Imams heading it ...

If we expect US to deliver on being fair, we too must also change ...

I so wish i was a world leader right now :(
 
Last edited:
Nobody said the change would be immediate.

I personally think Muslims or at least the leaders should immediately:
Stop broadcasting things on Israel in a highly biased and almost anti semetic way [In some cases] as it has the ability of forming peoples opinion on Israel and achieves little.
Stop teaching in schools to deny the Holocaust or portrayals of US/Israel - Perhaps even start a curriculum on Nakba and with it, the history of Israel.
Open new media stations which carry a moderate message
Start condemning more terrorism more, Saudis to stop funding the opening of Mosques around the Muslim world [and in some cases the west] with crazy Imams heading it ...

If we expect US to deliver on being fair, we too must also change ...
But it is not about the leaders, it's about the Muslim people themselves.
They're the ones who should make the change and stop supporting the hatred. The leaders would follow.
I so wish i was a world leader right now :(
Oh but there are many worlds out there in the universe. You need only to choose. ;)
 
Nobody said the change would be immediate.

I personally think Muslims or at least the leaders should immediately:
Stop broadcasting things on Israel in a highly biased and almost anti semetic way [In some cases] as it has the ability of forming peoples opinion on Israel and achieves little.
Stop teaching in schools to deny the Holocaust or portrayals of US/Israel - Perhaps even start a curriculum on Nakba and with it, the history of Israel.
Open new media stations which carry a moderate message
Start condemning terrorism more, Saudis to stop funding the opening of Mosques around the Muslim world [and in some cases the west] with crazy Imams heading it ...

If we expect US to deliver on being fair, we too must also change ...

I so wish i was a world leader right now :(

If you think this regurgitation of 40 years of empty rhetoric is going to amount to anything . . .
 
But it is not about the leaders, it's about the Muslim people themselves.
They're the ones who should make the change and stop supporting the hatred. The leaders would follow.

Oh but there are many worlds out there in the universe. You need only to choose. ;)

I have always quite fancied to become supreme ruler :)

You'd be surprised the role the media and Imams play.
If a Imam [and my Imam influences me personally alot. I will take his word sometimes over even my own family] and media is moderate or progressive thinking it will influence the Muslims. Seeing streams of reporting in a highly biased manner helps no one.
I was in E Africa during the Lebanon war, and for a moderate like me to get angry takes alot and the only media i had access to was arab ones and there was a absolute non stop stream of dead children and civilians. The media plays a big role.
 
Last edited:
If you think this regurgitation of 40 years of empty rhetoric is going to amount to anything . . .

I think it'll amount to something but maybe that is just me being overly optimistic.
I hope it leads to something but it takes 2 to tango and both sides need to sit down at the table
 
They had been pushed to the background as radicalization increased during the Bush admin.

:roll:

Bull-freakin'-hockey.

:roll:

Where were they BEFORE?

Perhaps it's incumbent upon you to go become of them yourself. Are you up for it?
 
Perhaps it's incumbent upon you to go become of them yourself. Are you up for it?

Clearly not making their voices heard if you need to ask that.

Oh i can't become a Imam and lead prayers. Only men.
I'd love to influence Muslims but i'm not so lucky
 
Clearly not making their voices heard if you need to ask that.

Why have they NEVER "made their voices heard"? It isn't because of Bush. None of this is even slightly new.


Oh i can't become a Imam and lead prayers. Only men.
I'd love to influence Muslims but i'm not so lucky

It doesn't stop you from trying. If moderate voices are needed, and if moderate voices would help, then why not give it a shot?
 
Why have they NEVER "made their voices heard"? It isn't because of Bush. None of this is even slightly new.

It doesn't stop you from trying. If moderate voices are needed, and if moderate voices would help, then why not give it a shot?

I could enter the debate i guess. Maybe one day i will god willing :)

They have, Moderate Muslims have been condemning and sending fatwa's many times. Moderate Muslims have been around for a long time, it was merely a brief shift of power to extremists which hopefully will balance itself with Iran's elections etc.
 
I could enter the debate i guess. Maybe one day i will god willing :)

It's a question of YOU being willing.

They have, Moderate Muslims have been condemning and sending fatwa's many times. Moderate Muslims have been around for a long time, it was merely a brief shift of power to extremists which hopefully will balance itself with Iran's elections etc.

Prominent examples of this?
 
I'd be willing to, indeed. I'd be very honored to hold such responsibility and authority but let me get some world experience first.

Those moderate voices are needed now.


These are good to see, but not one of them is in-theater. Not one of them directly takes on establishing peace between Israel and the Palestinians. These are all statements by people in India or Britain and about things in those countries.
 
Back
Top Bottom