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Thread: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Thats just it. No one is stopping anyone of age from declaring their devotion to each other. Has anyone EVER been arrested for being gaily married?

    As opposed to blocking traffic and being a general nuisance

    175 arrested at California gay marriage ban protest
    Blocking traffic? How about picketing and bombing abortion clinics and killing abortion doctors? Compared to that, I don't think gay rights marches are doing any harm.
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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    That depends on what you are considering northeast? Do you mean all of New England? Rhode Island has not passed it yet. Or if you're expanding beyond N.E. then you've still got New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey to go.
    NJ already allows civil unions, so it's pretty close.
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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What is certain is that your understanding is nonexistent.

    Judicial Review is not found in "democratic theory". It is a legal theory, the foundations of which within American jurisprudence are found in Marbury v Madison, and is succinctly stated by Chief Justice John Marshall in the body of that case:
    From Marbury, we can see that Judicial Review does not invalidate any state action--it identifies which acts of the legislative or executive branch of government are invalid by reason of identifiable conflict with a higher corpus of law (i.e., either state or US constitution). Whatever invalidity may be ascribed to a particular act is present in the act long before a judge rules on such invalidity.

    Equally important, and the only aspect where your pretentious ponderation on the Separation of Powers holds any relevance to this thread, is that while it is the province of judges to say what the law is, it is not the province of judges to say what the law should be. Where law has not been established by the legislative branch, the courts are not charged with filling that void--and their attempts to do so have never resulted in any lasting good for this nation.

    Thus, the best outcome is achieved when a state resolves its stance on gay marriage via the legislature rather than the courts. The legislature is the branch charged with declaring what the law should be; if the declaration is to be made for gay marriage, for it to be justice that declaration must emanate from the legislative branch and not the judiciary.
    The supreme and organic law of this land is the Constitution. If any law is contrary to it, that law in question must be struck down, and that responsibility is in the hands of the courts.

    I prefer that issues are settled by the legislative route, but some things are too important to let a simple 50% +1 decide. Our Founders knew this and provided for the courts to play a role in our legal system, they are the intermediaries between the legislative branch and the people. They are given the task to make sure the the legislative branch is abiding by the Constitution.

    We do not live in a simple Democracy, we live in a Constitutional Democracy where restrictions on majority rule are in place.
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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Congrats NH.

    That said, I oppose government sanctioned marriage. It's discriminatory. Consenting adults should be allowed to form any marriage relationship they wish - be it opposite sex partners, same sex partners, or multiple partners of any sex.

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Congrats NH.

    That said, I oppose government sanctioned marriage. It's discriminatory. Consenting adults should be allowed to form any marriage relationship they wish - be it opposite sex partners, same sex partners, or multiple partners of any sex.
    I agree. When our forefathers got married, they got married. They did not seek the permission of the government by way of a "license". They just did it.

    Marriage licenses only came about because the South wanted to ban mixed marriages, and the North was in the middle of their eugenics movement. So, marriage licenses are essentially a relic of racism and eugenics, two of the worst philosophies to ever exist on American soil.
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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I agree. When our forefathers got married, they got married. They did not seek the permission of the government by way of a "license". They just did it.

    Marriage licenses only came about because the South wanted to ban mixed marriages, and the North was in the middle of their eugenics movement. So, marriage licenses are essentially a relic of racism and eugenics, two of the worst philosophies to ever exist on American soil.
    I dunno, I am not all that opposed to eugenics, myself.

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What is certain is that your understanding is nonexistent.

    Judicial Review is not found in "democratic theory".
    First off, once again, you are talking out of your hindquarters. And have demostrated to DP at large that you don't know that which emanates from your hindquarter from a bottle of Shinola...

    I would suggest you read up on democratic theory, starting with this informative article. Or this Syllabus from a Political Science Class entitled Democratic Theory.

    Moving on...
    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It is a legal theory, the foundations of which within American jurisprudence are found in
    Yes, genius, it is a legal theory, too. You want a cookie?

    Marbury v Madison, and is succinctly stated by Chief Justice John Marshall in the body of that case:
    From Marbury, we can see that Judicial Review does not invalidate any state action--it identifies which acts of the legislative or executive branch of government are invalid by reason of identifiable conflict with a higher corpus of law (i.e., either state or US constitution). Whatever invalidity may be ascribed to a particular act is present in the act long before a judge rules on such invalidity.

    Equally important, and the only aspect where your pretentious ponderation on the Separation of Powers holds any relevance to this thread, is that while it is the province of judges to say what the law is, it is not the province of judges to say what the law should be. Where law has not been established by the legislative branch, the courts are not charged with filling that void--and their attempts to do so have never resulted in any lasting good for this nation.
    Thank you for the History lesson and expanding on what I already said. Have another cookie.

    Thus, the best outcome is achieved when a state resolves its stance on gay marriage via the legislature rather than the courts. The legislature is the branch charged with declaring what the law should be; if the declaration is to be made for gay marriage, for it to be justice that declaration must emanate from the legislative branch and not the judiciary.

    for demonstrating a somewhat limited but adequate understanding of Judicial Review.

    Again your understanding of the process does seem to leave out the concept of the 'check and balance' function that the courts play.

    The state legislature does indeed pass laws. Once on the books however (Prop 22, Prop 8), citizens can file briefs asking for, among other things, a ruling on the constitutionality of the law.

    Since the Californian State Constitution has now been legally amended via our state's ballot initiative process, Olson and Boies are taking the matter to federal courts. This is part of the process. Clear so far?

    In other words, although the constitution was amended via legal means, that does not end the conversation. The will of the majority must not trample on the rights the minority, and, in order ensure that, the federal courts can at times review state laws. Got it?

    Exactly what is it that you have a problem with? Moderate conservatives coming around to accept gay marriage? Freedom means freedom for everyone, right?

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Exactly what is it that you have a problem with? Moderate conservatives coming around to accept gay marriage? Freedom means freedom for everyone, right?
    Until you put this bit of bloviation, the point to your rantings was quite unclear.

    However, this bit of bloviation merely demolishes your own credibility. You have participated in most if not all of the other threads on this topic, wherein I have outlined my stance on gay marriage itself. I have articulated why I consider the legislature to be the proper venue for resolving this issue. Pretending that I have some visceral opposition to the concept of gay marriage or the proper role of the judiciary is both dishonest and disingenuous. Worse, it is a poor argument.

    My commentary in this thread merely provides a capstone to my earlier arguments, by illuminating the relative calm and overall acceptance the legislative solutions enjoy which the judicial solutions do not.

    Continue to manufacture prejudice from my stance, as that is your wont. I have no doubt I will give you much to satisfy your desire for animus.

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    New Hampshire has just become the sixth state to allow same sex marriage. The governor is about to sign it into law.



    Although I might not agree that sexual orientation is always something you have no choice over, I still respect this decision. If gays want to marry, it is none of my damn business. I wish them happiness.

    Article is here.
    If it's non of your business then why did you make this thread?

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Congratulations NH! Logic prevails i see


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