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Thread: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    Yes, libertarianism is a wide-tent movement that includes people who are only slightly more libertarian than the mainstream, as well as principled Minarchists (including Objectivists) and Anarcho-Capitalists like me.

    The Free State Project is defined as being for people who "will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property" - so it's not just for radicals.
    Cool...I wanna see a minichrist!
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    How personal is it exactly if you have to force on 36,756,666 other people?
    Wow...somebody was really gettin' busy if that's what they did. Has it hit the internet yet?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    He said "say" not "type", retard.
    Well, I have to say the words as I type them or it comes out wrong on the t.v. screen thing.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Oh sweet Jesus, I'm over 10K posts...I have to cancel my account.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    About as personal as when the all the other people force themselves on the 36,756,666.
    Thats just it. No one is stopping anyone of age from declaring their devotion to each other. Has anyone EVER been arrested for being gaily married?

    As opposed to blocking traffic and being a general nuisance

    175 arrested at California gay marriage ban protest
    Thank you

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Has anyone noticed that when these matters are settled properly (meaning by the legislatures and not the courts), that there is hardly any controversy?

    It is not a coincidence, and should be instructive to any who feel the judiciary is the proper place to address this type of issue.

    If gay marriage is to be the law of the states, let the states pass the law the way states are meant to pass law--through their legislatures and not the courts.
    I'm not sure you understand the concept of Judicial Review--the doctrine in democratic theory under which state action should be subject to invalidation by judges.

    Separation of Powers, Checks and Balances... any of this sound familiar?

    Wait, hold on, the phone is ringing...

    Celtic, that was your high school Civics teacher on the phone and he's changing that B- to a C. Sorry. Didn't mean to get in trouble.


    The state appellate courts and federal circuit courts act as a check and balance for the other two branches of government.


    Also, Controversy is not a bad thing. It makes people think.

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    I am just curious if any of the states that allow same sex marriage had a drop in tax revenue? I am wondering how many people use it to gain tax breaks.

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Thats just it. No one is stopping anyone of age from declaring their devotion to each other. Has anyone EVER been arrested for being gaily married?

    As opposed to blocking traffic and being a general nuisance

    175 arrested at California gay marriage ban protest
    Good for them. I hope more protests break out against those who would demand that the government bar citizens from equal access to and enjoyment of an institution and the added benefits and rights it grants.

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I'm not sure you understand the concept of Judicial Review--the doctrine in democratic theory under which state action should be subject to invalidation by judges.
    Judicial review does not require the judiciary be able to redetermine the fixed and original meanings of laws and the constitution only to see if a situation is covered by them or very, very close. It certainly does not require complete reinterpretation of fixed laws and clauses of the constitution based on the ideological viewpoints of the judges, that is more suited to Jacobin committees than a state under the rule of law, the separation of powers and a proper constitution.

    Separation of Powers, Checks and Balances... any of this sound familiar?
    Separation of powers does not necessitate the judiciary be completely independent and the basic arbiters of the constitution. They have never had such a position in Britain. The highest court is the house of lords and the legislature can direct the judiciary how to interpret the constitution and laws.You are applying a liberal, American view of it as well, viewpoint to all democratic states where it does not belong.

    The state appellate courts and federal circuit courts act as a check and balance for the other two branches of government.
    And they should only do so by applying the fixed and original meaning of the laws and constitutions. That is the point.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 06-04-09 at 01:35 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Six: New Hampshire will legalize same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I'm not sure you understand the concept of Judicial Review--the doctrine in democratic theory under which state action should be subject to invalidation by judges.
    What is certain is that your understanding is nonexistent.

    Judicial Review is not found in "democratic theory". It is a legal theory, the foundations of which within American jurisprudence are found in Marbury v Madison, and is succinctly stated by Chief Justice John Marshall in the body of that case:
    It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is.
    From Marbury, we can see that Judicial Review does not invalidate any state action--it identifies which acts of the legislative or executive branch of government are invalid by reason of identifiable conflict with a higher corpus of law (i.e., either state or US constitution). Whatever invalidity may be ascribed to a particular act is present in the act long before a judge rules on such invalidity.

    Equally important, and the only aspect where your pretentious ponderation on the Separation of Powers holds any relevance to this thread, is that while it is the province of judges to say what the law is, it is not the province of judges to say what the law should be. Where law has not been established by the legislative branch, the courts are not charged with filling that void--and their attempts to do so have never resulted in any lasting good for this nation.

    Thus, the best outcome is achieved when a state resolves its stance on gay marriage via the legislature rather than the courts. The legislature is the branch charged with declaring what the law should be; if the declaration is to be made for gay marriage, for it to be justice that declaration must emanate from the legislative branch and not the judiciary.

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