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Thread: Operation Rescue adviser helped Tiller suspect track doctor's court dates

  1. #21
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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Many libertarians are quite serious about winning. The system is purposefully set up against third parties, however, so it's tough to gain the national presence necessary to really get a message out. But I think it's selling the LP short to say they aren't interested in winning, they happen to have strong principles which can also be a handicap when facing off against a corrupted main party hell bent on maintaining power through exclusion and other underhanded techniques.
    It's not not just the way you're selling your product. At the end of the day what you're selling is just as important and it seems to me that when anybody dares to suggest that maybe pulling out of the U.N. isn't that great of an idea in a 21st century world, Libertarians get all self righteous and start talking about liberty and freedom like they're selling the best thing since toilet rolls. Libertarians are basically the group that both Liberals and Conservatives stay away from because there are just so many things that they seem to deal with from the perspective of a 5 year old. Don't like the UN? Well then obviously the solution is to leave. Don't like the IRS? Obviously the solution is to get rid of it. Drugs? Legalize them all because, well, all drugs are the same. Roads? Privatize them and let companies run because obviously they have the concerns of poor people who travel in mind. These are just some of the few things I've seen Libertarians advocate on more then one occasion and I've found that if Liberals and Conservatives agree on anything definitively is that Libertarians embody the radicalism of both groups without burning flags or waving them non stop. You guys are like that cousin we can't stand but have to say hi to anyways.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-03-09 at 02:25 PM.
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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    libertarianism bases itself on the restriction of government. The reason I think that some "conservatives" and "liberals" stay away from libertarians is because the libertarian will call for abuses to be done away with which is supported by one of the sides. But in the end, libertarians tend to stick to their guns and ideology; which can't necessarily be said of the main parties. While there is certainly an amount of extremism, I think the overall belief in limited government which is not echoed by either "conservatives" or "liberals" is well worth the investment of time and effort to promote. Reasonable, limited, and constrained government is not outlandish and only the libertarians call for it. There is a wide breadth of specific ideology out there in the libertarian party, but the fundamental we all agree on is that government needs to be constrained, that the People are in charge and must be recognized as the sovereigns. I don't think it's such the bad thing you're trying to make it out to be.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #23
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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    libertarianism bases itself on the restriction of government. The reason I think that some "conservatives" and "liberals" stay away from libertarians is because the libertarian will call for abuses to be done away with which is supported by one of the sides. But in the end, libertarians tend to stick to their guns and ideology; which can't necessarily be said of the main parties. While there is certainly an amount of extremism, I think the overall belief in limited government which is not echoed by either "conservatives" or "liberals" is well worth the investment of time and effort to promote. Reasonable, limited, and constrained government is not outlandish and only the libertarians call for it. There is a wide breadth of specific ideology out there in the libertarian party, but the fundamental we all agree on is that government needs to be constrained, that the People are in charge and must be recognized as the sovereigns. I don't think it's such the bad thing you're trying to make it out to be.
    No, the reason people stay away from Libertarians is this

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    Whether that accident was caused because you were drunk, old, young, sleepy, stupid, stressed out about the kids in the back, momentarily destructed by a billboard, or whatever else is your problem. In a free society all roads would be privately owned, and the road owners would make whatever rules they see fit to restrict access to those roads, but there's no reason for the law to be involved preemptively.
    That's just plain naive and unworkable. Drunk driving should be a crime. Libertarians tend to be just as naive and idealistic as communists, with similarly Utopian views. And, just like communism, the systems that most of the libertarians I've ever talked to support are completely unrealistic

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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    No, the reason people stay away from Libertarians is this

    That's just plain naive and unworkable. Drunk driving should be a crime. Libertarians tend to be just as naive and idealistic as communists, with similarly Utopian views. And, just like communism, the systems that most of the libertarians I've ever talked to support are completely unrealistic
    Well they don't all advocate that. More libertarians advocate legalizing all drugs saying that it will by way of miracle reduce addiction and then drug cartels will be taxed and...... That to me seems 10x as idealistic and ridiculous. It's basically a statement by people who know nothing about the way the drug market works and how it's related to 10 million other factors.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I would have to qualify that by saying that I believe a lot of libertarians want a smaller government than the Founders even envisioned, while I believe constitutionalist are more pure about adhering to the Constitution and the Founder intent.
    Pretty much sums it up for me as well.

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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    libertarianism bases itself on the restriction of government. The reason I think that some "conservatives" and "liberals" stay away from libertarians is because the libertarian will call for abuses to be done away with which is supported by one of the sides. But in the end, libertarians tend to stick to their guns and ideology; which can't necessarily be said of the main parties. While there is certainly an amount of extremism, I think the overall belief in limited government which is not echoed by either "conservatives" or "liberals" is well worth the investment of time and effort to promote. Reasonable, limited, and constrained government is not outlandish and only the libertarians call for it. There is a wide breadth of specific ideology out there in the libertarian party, but the fundamental we all agree on is that government needs to be constrained, that the People are in charge and must be recognized as the sovereigns. I don't think it's such the bad thing you're trying to make it out to be.
    And that's great. But there are some things the government should deal with because it is not only it's own interest but in that of society as a whole. The minimal government that Libertarians advocate is the biggest turn off for most people anywhere near the middle from both camps.

    Maybe people want the government to deal with drugs, the environment and the safety of products etc. Maybe people want the government to live in the 21st century and not isolate itself from the world by pulling out of the U.N. Maybe because to a huge extent they don't trust privately owned companies with even less accountability then the government, people simply do not believe in the calls for less government from the Libertarians.

    And then there is that self righteous belief once again which you showed in the bold section. That libertarians are the knight in shinny white armor when we all know that's not true. The different between a corrupt Libertarian, a corrupt Republican and a corrupt Democrat is that neither the Republican or Democrat are willing to find out just to what extent the corruption of the Libertarian can go if he gains power because they've seen what he says when he's out of power.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-03-09 at 02:50 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I don't want to unfairly associate Scott Roeder with any pro-life group or organization, but this story definitely raises some eyebrows about Operation Rescue-- or, at the very least, this one particular advisor.

    Operation Rescue adviser helped Tiller suspect track doctor's court dates



    I certainly hope the police are questioning this woman, checking her phone and computer records etc.
    I believe in innocence until guilt is proven, but let's not prevent that pro-life groups aren't privately celebrating over Tiller's death. They all have to publically stay that they abhor violence, but they all hated that guy passionately. Even among pro-choicers, that guy was seen as scum by many. I can only imagine why it took so long for a radical pro-lifer to take him out.

    This article hints at that.

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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So libertarianism does not seek truth?
    Your reading comprehension skills need work.


    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Kiddie porn is not a victimless crime, as it would not exist if there was not a market for it. IMHO, those who download kiddie porn are just as guilty as those who took the pictures, since they helped contribute to the abuse of the child in the photo by providing the market for it.
    I have debunked that fallacy elsewhere.

    I've made my point about prohibitionism - your failure to understand it is not my problem. Let's not take this thread off-topic by nitpicking.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    [...] You seem to have zero grasp of how the criminal justice system works
    An appeal to tradition is not a rational argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I would have to qualify that by saying that I believe a lot of libertarians want a smaller government than the Founders even envisioned, while I believe constitutionalist are more pure about adhering to the Constitution and the Founder intent.
    They want to fix the problem of out-of-control government by winding back the clock, changing nothing, and somehow expecting a different result...
    Last edited by Alex Libman; 06-03-09 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    An appeal to tradition is not a rational argument.
    That's because it wasn't an argument - you edited all of those out of my post

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    Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    IT's this flavor fo Libertarianism that makes me not embrace them.




    There is a difference between "libertarian" and "libertine" obviously that dood is the latter.
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