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Thread: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Given the situation, going into Iraq was the right thing to do. As I stated before, it wasnt until it was clear that GWB was actually going to do something about Iraq was there ever any question about the threat posed by Iraq --- and so, the 'questions' raised once there was a significant chance of war indicate any number of things, not the least of which was a lack of REAL desire for people to actually DO something about the monsters they are so happy to otherwise complain about.

    Consider, for a moment, had the international community been more serious about Iraq from 1993-2001, with a degree of backbone and an urgency of action regarding the threat that everyone agreed was present, there might not have been a war in 2003.
    Which threat was present?

    How does that, in and of itself, make the war "illegal"?
    It was a violation of international law. But thank you for admitting that much.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-02-09 at 04:58 PM.

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Which threat was present?
    As previously described, the threat posed by Saddam, his WMD,his WMD programs, and his desire to trhart and evade the international community.

    See:

    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
    - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    "Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
    - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
    - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin,
    Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

    "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
    - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
    - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    "There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,)
    and others, December 5, 2001

    "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
    - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
    - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
    - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
    - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
    - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
    - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
    - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
    - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
    - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction.
    ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
    - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003


    It was a violation of international law.
    That's only true if there were no other provisions of international law that would 'allow' such a thing. Show that to be true.

  3. #173
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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    As previously described, the threat posed by Saddam, his WMD,his WMD programs, and his desire to trhart and evade the international community.
    What WMD? What WMD programs? What desire to "trhart" [whatever that means] and evade the international community? You're going to have to be more specific. And posting a list of quotes doesn't formulate an argument - that's your job.

    That's only true if there were no other provisions of international law that would 'allow' such a thing. Show that to be true.
    It actually works the other way around; until you can prove that there is another provision, we can assume that there isn't one. You cannot prove that something doesn't exist. Unless you want me to just link you to the UN website and you can trawl through every single resolution they ever passed as proof that none of them 'allow' such a thing.

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It actually works the other way around; until you can prove that there is another provision, we can assume that there isn't one:
    Iraq signed a cease-fire with the United States in 1991. Not a treaty, not a formal end to hostilities. And not with the UN, with the United States. Under its provisions (or under the mechanism of any cease-fire), if its terms were not honored, hostilities may resume. Iraq never honored those provisions.

    Therefore, the resumption of hostilities was perfectly legal.
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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Iraq signed a cease-fire with the United States in 1991.
    Link please.

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    What WMD? What WMD programs? What desire to "trhart" [whatever that means] and evade the international community? You're going to have to be more specific. And posting a list of quotes doesn't formulate an argument - that's your job.
    Trhart = Threat

    I'm sorry if the peopkle describing the threat to the American People doesn'l describe the threat to you. I guess you'll just have to remain unsatisfied.

    It actually works the other way around;
    Actusally, no. There are several provisions on international law that would allows for a war absent a UNSC reslution to that effect -- it is up to YOU to show how they do not apply here.

    2 examples:
    Treaty law: Violation of a cease fire is cause for hostilities to re-open
    Treaty and Custom law: The right of a state to act in its own self-defense

    It was silly of me to assume you were arare of these tenets of International law, and that you'd be able to address them w/o coaxing.

    There are, of course, several UNSC resolutions you oought to look to as well, given that they amend and supercede the one you cited.

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Link please.
    Gulf War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The end of active hostilities
    A peace conference was held in Iraqi territory occupied by the coalition, where a cease fire agreement was negotiated and signed by both sides. At the conference, Iraq won the approval of the use of armed helicopters on their side of the temporary border, ostensibly for government transit due to the damage done to civilian transportation. Soon after, these helicopters, and much of the Iraqi armed forces, were refocused toward fighting against a Shiite uprising in the south. The rebellions were encouraged on 2 February 1991 by a broadcast on CIA run radio station The Voice of Free Iraq broadcasting out of Saudi Arabia. The Arabic service of the Voice of America supported the uprising by stating that the rebellion was large and that they soon would be liberated from Hussein.[55]
    Last edited by Goobieman; 06-02-09 at 05:21 PM.

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    I'm sorry if the peopkle describing the threat to the American People doesn'l describe the threat to you. I guess you'll just have to remain unsatisfied.
    What threat?

    2 examples:
    Treaty law: Violation of a cease fire is cause for hostilities to re-open
    Treaty and Custom law: The right of a state to act in its own self-defense
    I am aware of both of these, but neither apply.

    There are, of course, several UNSC resolutions you oought to look to as well, given that they amend and supercede the one you cited.
    I am quite aware of all the relevant resolutions.

    Gulf War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I'm looking for a link to the text of the cease-fire agreement, not a wikipedia article claiming one exists (btw, I know that this does not exist, so let me know when you are done trying to claim that it does).
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-02-09 at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    What threat?
    The post is in English, and the descritptions of the threat are plain.

    I am aware of both of these, but neither apply.
    Show this to be true.

    I am quite aware of all the relevant resolutions.
    Show that the resolution you cited remains relevant.

    I'm looking for a link to the text of the cease-fire, not a wikipedia article claiming one exists.
    You've been shown that a cease-fire was signed between the earring parties directly, seperate from any UN action to that effect.
    Youdont have to like that, but you should accept it.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 06-02-09 at 05:25 PM.

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    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Link please.
    Heck, I'll do you one better -- I'll link you to a 1992 statement by the Security Council that says Iraq was already violating the terms of the cease-fire.

    Security Council Says Iraq Violating Cease-Fire Terms

    The cease-fire was ratified as UN SC Res 687.
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