Page 16 of 22 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 217

Thread: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

  1. #151
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-11-17 @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    ADK Forever,

    It's not that anyone backed me down from my position - I do believe Bush-43 had "Iraqi payback" on the brian before he took office - but there's no clear evidence that he actually planned to go to war prior to taking office. So, here again I stand corrected. However, there is clear evidence that plans were conceived prior to 9/11.

    Incidentally, I found the 2000 document, "Rebuilding America's Defenses," from the Project for the new American Century published in September 2000. On page 8 where Iraq is discussed, the commentary reads, in part, as follows:

    The one constant of Pentagon force planning through the past decade has been the recognized need to retain sufficient combat forces to fight and win, as repidly and decisively as possible, multiple, nearly simultaneous major theater wars. This constant is based opon two important truths about the current international order. Once, the Cold-War standoff between America and its allies and the Soviet Union that made for caution and discouraged direct aggression against the major security interests of either side no longer exists. Two, conventional warefare remains a viable way for aggressive states to seek major changes in the international order.

    Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait reflected both truths. The invasion would have been highly unlikely, if not impossible, within the context of the Cold War, and Iraq overran Kuwait in a matter of hours. These two truths revealed a third: maintaining or restoring a favorable order in vital regions in the world such as Europe, the Middle East and East Asia places a unique responsibility on U.S. armed forces. The Gulf War and indeed the subsequent lesser wars in the Balkans could hardly have been fought and won without the dominant role played by American military might.

    Thus, the understanding that U.S. armed forces should be shaped by a "two-major-war" standard rightly has been accepted as the core of America's superpower status since the end of the Cold War."
    ...WOW...

    Cheney got his two-pronged war after all...
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-02-09 at 03:43 PM.

  2. #152
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:57 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,542

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    The one constant of Pentagon force planning through the past decade has been the recognized need to retain sufficient combat forces to fight and win, as repidly and decisively as possible, multiple, nearly simultaneous major theater wars. This constant is based opon two important truths about the current international order. Once, the Cold-War standoff between America and its allies and the Soviet Union that made for caution and discouraged direct aggression against the major security interests of either side no longer exists. Two, conventional warefare remains a viable way for aggressive states to seek major changes in the international order.

    Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait reflected both truths. The invasion would have been highly unlikely, if not impossible, within the context of the Cold War, and Iraq overran Kuwait in a matter of hours. These two truths revealed a third: maintaining or restoring a favorable order in vital regions in the world such as Europe, the Middle East and East Asia places a unique responsibility on U.S. armed forces. The Gulf War and indeed the subsequent lesser wars in the Balkans could hardly have been fought and won without the dominant role played by American military might.

    Thus, the understanding that U.S. armed forces should be shaped by a "two-major-war" standard rightly has been accepted as the core of America's superpower status since the end of the Cold War."
    Is there something about this which doesn't make sense?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #153
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    ...WOW...
    Cheney got his two-pronged war after all...
    I'm not sure how or why you're shocked by this, or why you think Cheney -wanted- a 2-pronged war...?

  4. #154
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:57 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,542

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    ADK Forever,

    It's not that anyone backed me down from my position - I do believe Bush-43 had "Iraqi payback" on the brian before he took office - but there's no clear evidence that he actually planned to go to war prior to taking office. So, here again I stand corrected.
    Most people here wouldn't do that -- good on you.


    However, there is clear evidence that plans were conceived prior to 9/11.
    If you're referring to contingency plans drawn up by the Pentagon, then yes -- but they're also drawn up for any potential trouble spot in the entire world, if not every country in the entire world.

    Having a plan is good due diligence, not evidence in and of itself of an intent to follow through on it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #155
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-11-17 @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Harshaw,

    I understand the logic behind it, e.g., show that the U.S. can handle a two-pronged war and we, thus, retain our "superpower" image. In other words, might makes right. But that doesn't mean that we "create" a war just to prove ourselves.

    The War on Terror being fought in Afghanistan remains a legit war, IMO. Al-Quaida w/the full support of the Taliban attacked the U.S. We are justified in fighting back. But the War in Iraq...no. Of course, few will ever believe that the Iraq war was and has been a trumped up war from the very beginning. So...

    Let's move on shall we...

  6. #156
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,883

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    I wonder how long it will be before he admits the invasion was illegal.

  7. #157
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:57 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,542

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Harshaw,

    I understand the logic behind it, e.g., show that the U.S. can handle a two-pronged war and we, thus, retain our "superpower" image. In other words, might makes right. But that doesn't mean that we "create" a war just to prove ourselves.
    Who says we did that, and what in that entire PNAC report suggests that the INTENT is/was to do that?

    The "logic" isn't to "show" we can "handle" it -- the "logic" is to be actually ABLE to do it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #158
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Harshaw,
    I understand the logic behind it, e.g., show that the U.S. can handle a two-pronged war and we, thus, retain our "superpower" image.
    It doesnt have anything to do with 'image', it has everything to do with ability -- and it doesnt have anything to do with 'maintaining supwerpower status', it has everyhting to do with protecting the national interest.

    In other words, might makes right.
    Not sure how you get that, as there's no statement of right/wrong in what you posted. The PNAC recognized that the post-cold-war world had changed and that the US military needed to be able to respond to different challenges than it did before the wall fell. This policy statement is nothing more than a description of how to do it when it becomes necessary, rather than some statement of predisposed intent to go to war (in Iraq or elsewhere).

    But that doesn't mean that we "create" a war just to prove ourselves.
    Which we did not do.

  9. #159
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I wonder how long it will be before he admits the invasion was illegal.
    First, it would have to BE illegal...

  10. #160
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-11-17 @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Cheney Says There Was No Iraq Link to 9/11 Attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I wonder how long it will be before he admits the invasion was illegal.
    Are you referring to Iraq? No, but that's only because we had U.N. authorization to use military might. So, no, the invasion of Iraq by the U.S. was not illegal. Immoral, perhaps. Unnecessary...ditto, but illegal, no.

    Harshaw,

    In demonstrating that "'logic' to be actually ABLE to do it", fight a war on two-front, all this country's military had to do was change its war-time tactics. Our Armed Forces hold joint-tactical operations with between services and foreign nations all the time...usually with our allies. I'm a Navy vet. So, I know this to be true. There's nothing stopping us from holding war games in the Atlantic while also doing same in the Pacific with one objective in mind - secure a beachhead in both open waters. It's expesive, complex and would require multi-national involvement, but it could be done.

    And BTW, anyone who doesn't believe that former VP isn't a war-crazed lune who didn't get is two-pronged war just has a hard time accepting the reality of the deception that was and IS the Iraq War.

    Goodie,

    Again, you're justifying something that really isn't justifyable, IMO. Sure, the U.S. didn't have to put forth the image that its military was capable of defending our national interest at home or abroad - we've proven that in wars/campaigns of the past. But the Iraqi situation (i.e., WMD), IMO, presented the Bush-43 administration with the perfect opportunity to put forth the idea of a "two-major-war standard". Why else would they have pushed to go to war w/Iraq with very little credible evidence to show that the Iraqi government was a viable and immediate threat to our national security? Every investigation on the merits of going to war w/Iraq - internal and external - have elude to this. None have come outright and said the war was un-ncessary - none that I've read anyway, but I think many Americans have already come to that conclusion with or w/o a details report.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-02-09 at 04:21 PM.

Page 16 of 22 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •