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Thread: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

  1. #21
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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    You never heard of General Sanchez?..you have never seen the left use any of his comments in the past?
    Irrelevant to the conversation at hand.
    You do not know that he is basically complaining because he got replaced by Petraeus?
    Completely unsupported speculation. This does not an argument make. Do you have any information that would substantiate your position other than your opinion?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Yeah, I hope he dies by his own word.
    Why, you got something against a guy who wants to the truth to be uncovered?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Why, you got something against a guy who wants to the truth to be uncovered?
    He ran that war for a while didn't he? That makes him a war criminal doesn't it? Well let him be executed. Why do we need a commission, we know criminals like him support torture and other war crimes, don't we?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    He ran that war for a while didn't he? That makes him a war criminal doesn't it? Well let him be executed. Why do we need a commission, we know criminals like him support torture and other war crimes, don't we?
    So you're now saying we did commit war crimes?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Their new Commander in Chief wants to put this nation on the right course with regard to torture and inhumane treatment of our captives. To that end Sanchez and Patraeus' comments are not contrary, but complimentary, to the direction of the new administration.
    If this were the case. Why are we still sending people to other country's to be tortured? Why did President Obama leave that intact?

    "the Obama administration appears to have determined that the rendition program was one component of the Bush administration's war on terrorism that it could not afford to discard..."Obviously you need to preserve some tools -- you still have to go after the bad guys," said an Obama administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity when discussing the legal reasoning. "The legal advisors working on this looked at rendition. It is controversial in some circles and kicked up a big storm in Europe. But if done within certain parameters, it is an acceptable practice." - John V. Santore: What is Obama's Rendition Policy?

    And let us not forget Obama's numerous torture loopholes:

    "“America does not torture,” Barack Obama recently proclaimed. George Bush said the same thing, and was proven to be lying. An analysis of President Obama’s executive order on torture “may permit cruel abuses of prisoners to continue.” Although the order seems to cover the closing of CIA torture centers, it does not mention torture centers that might be run by other federal agencies or corporate outfits like Blackwater. And, while imposing safeguards on prisoners taken in “armed conflict,” the order pointedly leaves out prisoners seized in “counterrorism operations.” Obama should close these huge loopholes, or “explain why he won’t.” - Obama's Numerous Torture Loopholes | Black Agenda Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    To make these statements during Bush's tenure as President would have been undermining the highest in the chain of command. Soldiers do not do that. Things have changed now. They are free to critique past strategy and discuss the good and the bad.
    This is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    So you're now saying we did commit war crimes?
    According to international law "we" did not. Some members of the armed forces did. This does not make the whole country liable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    According to international law "we" did not. Some members of the armed forces did. This does not make the whole country liable.
    Accusations such as this is exactly why we need a truth crimes Commission as the General is suggesting here.

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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Accusations such as this is exactly why we need a truth crimes Commission as the General is suggesting here.
    I think it is a waist of time and money, but I would have no problem with it in the long run.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #29
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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If this were the case. Why are we still sending people to other country's to be tortured? Why did President Obama leave that intact?

    "the Obama administration appears to have determined that the rendition program was one component of the Bush administration's war on terrorism that it could not afford to discard..."Obviously you need to preserve some tools -- you still have to go after the bad guys," said an Obama administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity when discussing the legal reasoning. "The legal advisors working on this looked at rendition. It is controversial in some circles and kicked up a big storm in Europe. But if done within certain parameters, it is an acceptable practice." - John V. Santore: What is Obama's Rendition Policy?
    One problem with equating Obama's rendition policy with torture. You forgot this part...
    Regarding rendition specifically, that same executive order contains the following provisions:

    Sec. 5. Special Interagency Task Force on Interrogation and Transfer Policies.

    (a) Establishment of Special Interagency Task Force. There shall be established a Special Task Force on Interrogation and Transfer Policies (Special Task Force) to review interrogation and transfer policies...
    ...(ii) to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control.
    President Obama is NOT sending people off to other countries to be tortured. In fact he is taking steps to ensure that doesn't happen.
    And let us not forget Obama's numerous torture loopholes:

    "“America does not torture,” Barack Obama recently proclaimed. George Bush said the same thing, and was proven to be lying. An analysis of President Obama’s executive order on torture “may permit cruel abuses of prisoners to continue.” Although the order seems to cover the closing of CIA torture centers, it does not mention torture centers that might be run by other federal agencies or corporate outfits like Blackwater. And, while imposing safeguards on prisoners taken in “armed conflict,” the order pointedly leaves out prisoners seized in “counterrorism operations.” Obama should close these huge loopholes, or “explain why he won’t.” - Obama's Numerous Torture Loopholes | Black Agenda Report
    You're assuming that these loopholes are intentional and that they will lead to the torture of individuals. I found this quite interesting...
    “Consistent with the requirements of the Federal torture statute, . . . the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, . . . the [United Nations] Convention Against Torture, [the Geneva Conventions] Common Article 3, and other laws regulating the treatment and interrogation of individuals detained in any armed conflict,
    They are speculating that the "armed conflict" part of the statement means "only those taken in an armed conflict." The citation of adhering to the requirement in the other instruments, which are not solely limited to persons detained in an armed conflict, has obviously set an overarching commitment to not torture. Their entire argument rests on just that point...individuals detained in an armed conflict. I simply think it was not worded quite as clearly as it should have been. When I read it I look at that passage as meaning to include those articles, not at all limiting the order to pertain only to the armed conflict clause.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: General Rick Sanchez Calls for War Crimes Truth Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    According to international law "we" did not. Some members of the armed forces did. This does not make the whole country liable.
    If the execution of any policy of the Bush administration resulted in a "war crime" then yes we did.
    *insert profound statement here*

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