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GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

OK. Where you going with this? I am nonunion and have a forklift and crane license. I think I am missing something.

Oh I just thinking that there is positive purpose unions can serve.
 
Oh I just thinking that there is positive purpose unions can serve.

Oh! Yes, absolutely. I suspect that most unions are great things. My father was in the CWA(Communication Workers of America), and they helped him right up till he died. He would battle insurance companies, then when they reached an impasse, called the union, who went in and took care of things, twisting the arm of the two insurance companies that came through my fathers old employer.
 
So what happened to the billions of dollars Obama gave GM a couple of months ago? Is it completely gone now?
 
Isn't one of the goals of a union to develop superior skill sets for its members there by making them more efficient and more valuable as an employee?

That is a myth. In REALITY, and I speak from personal experience in the construction industry, Union labor merely adds to the cost and length of time it takes to complete a project.

I have NEVER seen any BETTER quality in the work between the construction I saw in the South and that I which saw in the Northeast.

The ONLY real difference was the doubling of the cost to build, the doubling of the time it took to build; the intimidation of laborers on the job site by Business Administrators from the Union (in their very expensive suits) and the FACT that these union workers worked specific and LESS hours.

They came to work at 7:00 a.m. and left exactly at 3:30 p.m. with THREE breaks taking with them the electrical breakers to ensure no one would work illegally after hours.

In the South, they would work from 7:00 a.m. till it got dark and in some cases, when the schedule demanded it, after dark. They didn't have specific break times and took lunch when the opportunity arose. They made MORE money by getting the work done and moving to the next job.

Unfortunately, the UNION leadership has been the Unions own worst enemies and have turned the UNION labor into more of an entitlement than a trained efficient work force and actually encourage workers to work at slower pace to ensure work and more labor requirements.

I worked for the machinists union as a young man and I speaking from personal experience; I was constantly being told I was working TOO fast and increasing the production requirements for my machine for others and this was made CLEAR to me as being no acceptable by the shop steward.

When I left, I promised to NEVER work in an environment like that again. By the way, this company produced oil valves for the Alaska Pipeline and is out of business now as are many machinist jobs which used to be pre-dominate in this area.
 
So what happened to the billions of dollars Obama gave GM a couple of months ago? Is it completely gone now?

GONE....do not expect to get it back either; we are such generous taxpayers aren't we?

But look at it this way, we saved an industry right? At least that is what Obama said this money would do. :roll:
 
GONE....do not expect to get it back either; we are such generous taxpayers aren't we?

But look at it this way, we saved an industry right? At least that is what Obama said this money would do. :roll:

Guess what all those people employed by GM either directly or indirectly are paying taxes in one form or another. Now would the government want to see these people paying taxes or collecting unemployment?
 
That is a myth. In REALITY, and I speak from personal experience in the construction industry, Union labor merely adds to the cost and length of time it takes to complete a project.

I have NEVER seen any BETTER quality in the work between the construction I saw in the South and that I which saw in the Northeast.

.

I guess you never heard of the home builder Fox and Jacobs.
 
Guess what all those people employed by GM either directly or indirectly are paying taxes in one form or another. Now would the government want to see these people paying taxes or collecting unemployment?

I guess you missed the news;
General Motors Corp. said Monday it will permanently close nine more plants and idle three others to trim production and labor costs under bankruptcy protection.

The closures will displace 18,000 to 20,000 GM employees, the company said.

Six of the plants are in GM's home state of Michigan, which has already been hard-hit by job cuts in the auto industry.

GM Outlines Additional Plant Closings : NPR

So tell me how many jobs were saved by the $50 billion the American taxpayers are paying and have paid into this company?

So back to my issue with Liberal Democrats; why did they claim it was GOOD policy for Bush to RAISE taxes to pay for his deficits but now the idea of raising taxes is NOT even on the table?
 
I guess you never heard of the home builder Fox and Jacobs.

Do share your views about these builders and how their case refutes what I have stated from PERSONAL experience.

I have not heard of them but am all eyes to see what your argument is going to be.
 
I guess you missed the news;
General Motors Corp. said Monday it will permanently close nine more plants and idle three others to trim production and labor costs under bankruptcy protection.

The closures will displace 18,000 to 20,000 GM employees, the company said.

Six of the plants are in GM's home state of Michigan, which has already been hard-hit by job cuts in the auto industry.
GM Outlines Additional Plant Closings : NPR

So tell me how many jobs were saved by the $50 billion the American taxpayers are paying and have paid into this company?

So back to my issue with Liberal Democrats; why did they claim it was GOOD policy for Bush to RAISE taxes to pay for his deficits but now the idea of raising taxes is NOT even on the table?
I'd like to know how much did the unions give to try and stop this.
 
Do share your views about these builders and how their case refutes what I have stated from PERSONAL experience.

I have not heard of them but am all eyes to see what your argument is going to be.

Some of my personal experience counters your personal experience. Great homes are built up north and crappy ones too just like down here in the south.
 
I'd like to know how much did the unions give to try and stop this.

I think they claimed they had given up way too much already and now have a partial ownership in the company; I am expecting this ownership to slap some reality into their heads and force them to make more concessions to avoid full liquidation.
 
Some of my personal experience counters your personal experience. Great homes are built up north and crappy ones too just like down here in the south.

I am not talking about houses; I am speaking of Commercial construction using the exact same specifications and requirements for BOTH instances.

I see you also ignored the personal experience working IN the machinist Union as further evidence.
 
I think they claimed they had given up way too much already and now have a partial ownership in the company; I am expecting this ownership to slap some reality into their heads and force them to make more concessions to avoid full liquidation.
So they got their members part ownership in a bankrupt company? They should have left business to business people. Good reason that unions shouldn't run companies. :doh
 
So they got their members part ownership in a bankrupt company? They should have left business to business people. Good reason that unions shouldn't run companies. :doh
So...
With the Governmet and thje union owning/running the compmany, who will the pro-union, pro-government people blame if GM continues to fail?
 
They'll blame Republicans for blocking any way to send more tax funds to the company. Although, if the government owns it, can you really call it a company since it steals to get some of its revenue?
 
Of course they can. It is America is it not? Do what Reagan did to the air controllers.. fire the bunch and hire others.

Like it or not the management had no spine during the negotiations.. pure and simple. Not even in Europe do we have such idiotic labour costs (relatively speaking) put on companies when compared to the rest of the society.

Yea but that isn't the fault of management, that would be the feds fault.

Even then though I wouldn't the government to intervene.

Management should of been focused on creating an innovative new line of products, plant efficiency, etc.

No one has yet to explain WHY American companies should lower their employment costs (wages and benefits) to compete with foreign companies who sell their products to Americans. I know you cons keep saying they should lower those costs but you haven't laid out why. I mean other than to increase corporate profits.

Someone else is willing to do the same thing cheaper.

That is how it works, people in places with a lesser cost of living naturally don't need as much money compared to people in places with higher costs of living.
 
I am not talking about houses; I am speaking of Commercial construction using the exact same specifications and requirements for BOTH instances.

I see you also ignored the personal experience working IN the machinist Union as further evidence.

LOL I guess you have never scene our crap strip mall down here. And your personal experience as a machnist really doesn' mean squat. My experience in a union counters yours? YAWN.
 
So...
With the Governmet and thje union owning/running the compmany, who will the pro-union, pro-government people blame if GM continues to fail?

Don't you know that by now Goobie? Why everything is George Bush's fault silly. :rofl
 
They'll blame Republicans for blocking any way to send more tax funds to the company. Although, if the government owns it, can you really call it a company since it steals to get some of its revenue?
What DO you call it when an industry is nationalized by socialists...?
 
LOL I guess you have never scene our crap strip mall down here.

What part of my comments do you continue to NOT get? What do your ramblings have to do with my experience in dealing with Unions in the Commercial Construction industry?

I used an example of building the SAME buildings using identical specifications and standards in TWO very different parts of the country using union and non-union and you keep rambling about crappy housing and crappy strip malls.

It's obvious you really don't get it do you?

And your personal experience as a machnist really doesn' mean squat. My experience in a union counters yours? YAWN.

Another compelling argument to say the least; do you even see the level of absurdity you stoop to, to basically say NOTHING except for; "well I don't like you and your wrong. "

Good lord; continue to carry on with your clown like assertions but they are hardly worth any continued response.
 
What DO you call it when an industry is nationalized by socialists...?

I'd call it an uncontested monopoly. Monopolies only arise in the free market when one company does something far better than anyone else and when they offer fair prices. These are contestable monopolies. Government does not need to do this, so any business that it runs is a uncontested monopoly.
 
That is a myth. In REALITY, and I speak from personal experience in the construction industry, Union labor merely adds to the cost and length of time it takes to complete a project.

I have NEVER seen any BETTER quality in the work between the construction I saw in the South and that I which saw in the Northeast.

The ONLY real difference was the doubling of the cost to build, the doubling of the time it took to build; the intimidation of laborers on the job site by Business Administrators from the Union (in their very expensive suits) and the FACT that these union workers worked specific and LESS hours.

They came to work at 7:00 a.m. and left exactly at 3:30 p.m. with THREE breaks taking with them the electrical breakers to ensure no one would work illegally after hours.

In the South, they would work from 7:00 a.m. till it got dark and in some cases, when the schedule demanded it, after dark. They didn't have specific break times and took lunch when the opportunity arose. They made MORE money by getting the work done and moving to the next job.

Unfortunately, the UNION leadership has been the Unions own worst enemies and have turned the UNION labor into more of an entitlement than a trained efficient work force and actually encourage workers to work at slower pace to ensure work and more labor requirements.

I worked for the machinists union as a young man and I speaking from personal experience; I was constantly being told I was working TOO fast and increasing the production requirements for my machine for others and this was made CLEAR to me as being no acceptable by the shop steward.

When I left, I promised to NEVER work in an environment like that again. By the way, this company produced oil valves for the Alaska Pipeline and is out of business now as are many machinist jobs which used to be pre-dominate in this area.

I worked in a machine shop in the early 90's that was partialy unionized. The union workers not only made $4-5 more an hour then their non union counterparts but they also recieved more frequent and longer breaks.

I dont understand how anyone would fail to see how this would hurt the company. More money payed to people that work less. :shock:
 
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I think I will be selling my Corvette. Having it serviced by the DMV is a rather scary proposition.
 
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