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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Wrong. It's the lack of unionization by the ignorant southerners and foreign companies.

    I can not for the life of me understand the mentality that says 'I will fight to get paid less and accept fewer benefits than a union worker doing the same job.' So that CEOs and shareholders can make more money... baffling.
    A union's primary job is to get its memebers the most money for the least amount of work possible. This is NEVER good for business as it raises costs and lowers productivity.

    So, the 'unionize the competition' is a solution only in the sense that it acts to bring everyone down to GM's level rather than strengthening GM's ability to compete.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Dont tell them the obvious.. this is not about what is the best and cheapest, but about a hard nosed political ideology regardless of the facts.. they are after all "conservative" and dont like change.
    Just because you have beds doesn't mean you have care.
    Look at who survives when they are ill with cancer let's say.

    What about results?
    Europeís survival rates are lower than in the US, where 66.3 per cent of men and 62.9 per cent of women survive for five years, compared with 47.3 per cent of European men and 55.8 per cent of women.
    Political Calculations: Surviving Cancer: US vs Europe

    I'll pay more thanks and not have to wait for government to tell me they are ready to accept me.

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    Last edited by zimmer; 06-01-09 at 04:24 PM.
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    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    A union's primary job is to get its memebers the most money for the least amount of work possible. This is NEVER good for business as it raises costs and lowers productivity.

    So, the 'unionize the competition' is a solution only in the sense that it acts to bring everyone down to GM's level rather than strengthening GM's ability to compete.
    That would be a perversion of what a union should be...kinda like the UAW I admit, but still...

    What a union should be, and what I would actually not mind having, is an organization that represents the workers and helps give them more of a bargaining position. Every one should have some one on their side, unions should be that for workers.

    Unfortunately, this does not work well in practice.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That would be a perversion of what a union should be...kinda like the UAW I admit, but still...
    It may be a perversion of what it should be, but it is exactly what it is.

    What a union should be, and what I would actually not mind having, is an organization that represents the workers and helps give them more of a bargaining position.
    A bargaining position.... to what end?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It may be a perversion of what it should be, but it is exactly what it is.


    A bargaining position.... to what end?
    To the end that without some form of collective bargaining, the power of the worker is much smaller than the power of employers in determining salary. It is in the best interest of the employer to play as little as it can, while it is in the interest of the worker to get as much as they can get. In most nonunion shops, the employer holds most of the cards in any negotiation involving nonskilled labor(I hate that term, as we do have skills, just that they are fairly common)), except in times of very low unemployment.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    To the end that without some form of collective bargaining, the power of the worker is much smaller than the power of employers in determining salary. It is in the best interest of the employer to play as little as it can, while it is in the interest of the worker to get as much as they can get.
    So... the objective of banding together in a union IS to get as much pay as possible for the least work possibe.

    As I said -- this is bad for business, and trying to unionize the competition in order to make GM more competitive is no different than raising average class scores by making the tests easier.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So... the objective of banding together in a union IS to get as much pay as possible for the least work possibe.

    As I said -- this is bad for business, and trying to unionize the competition in order to make GM more competitive is no different than raising average class scores by making the tests easier.
    Not "as possible", but "as is reasonable".

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    we sure got a great contract with terrific benefits
    too bad it cost so much teh business is out of business
    so i have no job
    I have no benefits
    thank god for my union
    /sarcasm

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not "as possible", but "as is reasonable".
    Not sure there is a difference.
    When did a union not ask for more money when its contract came up?
    When did a union not counter with a higher number when it was asked to take concessions?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It may be a perversion of what it should be, but it is exactly what it is.


    A bargaining position.... to what end?
    What about the folks that would rather work for a little less?
    They don't have that "right"?
    They have to be organized for their best interests.
    That is in their best interests?

    And what do you make of Obama wanting open union votes?
    It's one thing to vote for it in a private vote, but to make votes public?
    Intimidation.

    Legislation that would make it more difficult for workers to hold a private ballot vote in unionization drives, which critics say would lead to harassment and intimidation, has spurred a pitched battle between powerful labor unions supportive of Sen. Barack Obama and big business in the presidential campaign.

    "We're ready to play offense for organized labor. It's time we had a president who didn't choke saying the word 'union.' A president who strengthens our unions by letting them do what they do best: organize our workers," Mr. Obama told the AFL-CIO in Philadelphia on April 2.

    "I will make it the law of the land when I'm president of the United States," Mr. Obama told the labor federation.
    Obama supports union organizing - Washington Times
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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