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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

  1. #311
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    He still refuses to acknowledge that:
    1. Subsidization is inherently inefficient.
    2. By subsidizing one industry, another industry is made weaker.
    First off I never said that foreign countries pay directly the health care benefits of the worker. Japan doesn't cut a check to cover john the line workers premium. They subsidize over all costs as well as manipulate their currency. One thing I've discovered that I was unaware of is how much a state pays an automaker to open a plant in their state. From Big subsidies including giving money directly to them to cover initial building expenses to big tax incentives.

    1) I don't know about insufficient, perhaps you could elaborate on that one.
    2) How so? Can you give an example?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I never changed my argument. Tariffs are still a bad idea. Don't try to me.
    Why are tariffs bad? Please explain.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    1) I don't know about insufficient, perhaps you could elaborate on that one.
    I didn't say insufficient, I said inefficient. The most profitable sectors are the ones that should have the most money. By giving money to other sectors, you're hindering the growth of the best by propping up the worst.

    2) How so? Can you give an example?
    Japan subsidizes its car industry right? Well to get the money to subsidize it, other companies must cover that in taxes. Other companies lose money while the car industries gain money. Hence it hurts the other sectors. There is NO WAY to avoid that. Loans, inflation, etc. They will all hurt the other sectors.

    This is why we don't have to worry about other countries subsidizing industries. It will all be even in the end.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Yes we already know that you lack the ability to understand socioeconomic/community ties or empathize. You've already admitted that and we discussed it.

    What community ties do you think are more important than providing for your family?
    Do you want to pay unemployment and welfare and food stamps indefinitely to those who won't MOVE to where the work is?
    Empathize? you mean subsidize.....
    I already have siblings who want me to subsidize them, siblings who won't get off their lazy butts and make a personal effort to take care of their own needs....no way will I support them, so why should I care about non-relatives?
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Why are tariffs bad? Please explain.
    With a tariff, you tax imports. This means that everything from overseas will be higher than they otherwise would be. This gives American companies an advantage. If an overseas company makes something better, but has to charge more, then people will still be inclined to buy those American products. American companies will have no incentive to match the production of foreign firms because the tariff is protecting them. We lose efficiency and production because of that tariff.

    Get it now?

    Plus when you put up a big tariff, other countries will do the same. This directly hurts our exports. Look up Hoover's ordeal with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff and how it failed miserably.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Yes I would know because I've been ignorant about many things throughout my life, the difference is that I am willing to change my position with better evidence. Are you?
    “If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.”- Rene Descartes
    Why then, do they still build plants in the US, if Canadian workers are more efficient?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    With a tariff, you tax imports. This means that everything from overseas will be higher than they otherwise would be. This gives American companies an advantage. If an overseas company makes something better, but has to charge more, then people will still be inclined to buy those American products. American companies will have no incentive to match the production of foreign firms because the tariff is protecting them. We lose efficiency and production because of that tariff.

    Get it now?

    Plus when you put up a big tariff, other countries will do the same. This directly hurts our exports. Look up Hoover's ordeal with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff and how it failed miserably.
    You might as well be trying to explain Trickle Down Economics to ole slippyslope. Better off banging your head against the wall.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Yes I would know because I've been ignorant about many things throughout my life, the difference is that I am willing to change my position with better evidence. Are you?
    “If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.”- Rene Descartes
    very good advice,
    it took months of arguing with a pro-union coworker in Idaho that he was being shafted by his union, he was a very smart hard working tech and getting the same pay as poor techs, or lazy techs. We had I&C techs who were union, and reactor instrument techs who were not, practically the same job.
    But once I pointed out 2 of his coworkers as prime examples, he started to see the light. Soon after, he bid on, and won a position as a Reactor Instrument tech....more money, and no union dues. A truly competent work force (combined with intelligent management) can do better, in most cases, without a union...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    You might as well be trying to explain Trickle Down Economics to ole slippyslope. Better off banging your head against the wall.
    I hear there is a point where you start liking it...sort of like the runners high. No more pain, and you can just run and run and run, or bang, and bang, and bang.....
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I hear there is a point where you start liking it...sort of like the runners high. No more pain, and you can just run and run and run, or bang, and bang, and bang.....
    Really? I haven't pushed it to the point of the second wind yet. Might give it a shot.....tomorrow.

    It is nauseatingly frustrating that you actually have to debate the simplicities of tarrifs, taxes, unions, etc, with the hardcore liberal. I can't imagine life through those eyes.

    Then again, I often wonder how Hitler could possibly get an entire nation of to follow him down that path to destruction, too.

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