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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Strong would not be the problem with the UAW. Unchecked might be the best word to describe those problems. For a very long time, being an automaker meant huge profits. The UAW felt it was entitled to get a large share of those profits in perpetuity. Since money was flowing in, and a strike could really hurt them, the automakers gave the UAW most of what it wanted. Then profits started to decline, but contractually mandated costs continued to rise. Just the costs of retired autoworkers was killing the big 3.
    No, stupid southerners and foreign auto companies killed the big three, along with bad strategy.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    GM has to downsize and will certainly seek to renegotiate its labor contracts while in bankruptcy. Wonder if GM will sell off some of its divisions/facilities to competitors? Could Cadillac become a Toyota product etc?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Hey, that's great. Now you can buy a car from the government (GM), get it financed and insured by the government (AIG), and if you can't make the payments, go on government welfare and have the payments made for you. Did I also mention that the price for a new car will double? Get ready for the government bailout of Budweiser. $100.00 six packs are coming soon, and you can also finance one of those through AIG. Just put up your GM car as collateral. Conversely, you can use the beer as collateral to buy a car, that is, if you haven't drank it already.
    Last edited by danarhea; 06-01-09 at 02:31 PM.
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    As others have said, GM's problems lay mostly at the feet of the UAW demands. When you are paying retired workers full medical insurance, as well as in many cases 75%+ of their pay every year till they die. It gets expensive. Plus, GM made some dummmmmmb decisions that cost them.

    The RIGHT anaswer to the automakers problems has always been to let them collase, and make room for new companies to come in and replace the bloated monsters. They were never "Too big to fail." Their UNIONS were too big too fail.
    Well, don't fret, it won't be long before wages and worker benefits in this country fall to third world levels and then jobs will come back to the USA. What a great plan for corporations, instead of bringing the rest of the world up to our level of pay and standards we'll decrease them to the lowest possible levels so corporations make bigger profits... soooo smart. I guess we know the answer to this question "is the economy here to serve the people or are people here to serve the economy?"

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Wrong. It's the lack of unionization by the ignorant southerners and foreign companies.
    You don't know what your talking about. That is very clear with your bigoted regionalist attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    I can not for the life of me understand the mentality that says 'I will fight to get paid less and accept fewer benefits than a union worker doing the same job.' So that CEOs and shareholders can make more money... baffling.
    Union workers get paid more than what they are worth. If they wanted more they themselves could have become, gasp, shareholders.

    Its funny to me because when all these too big to fail companies finally implode I get more job opportunities.
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Hey, that's great. Now you can buy a car from the government (GM), get it financed and insured by the government (AIG), and if you can't make the payments, go on government welfare and have the payments made for you. Did I also mention that the price for a new car will double? Get ready for the government bailout of Budweiser. $100.00 six packs are coming soon, and you can also finance one of those through AIG. Just put up your GM car as collateral. Conversely, you can use the beer as collateral to buy a car, that is, if you haven't drank it already.
    Yes be afraid!!! Run and hide because the big bad government is coming... tomorrow of course but get ready!! There are only 5 or 6 people for the government to silence before they have complete control of your mind... I just love to hear people spew their conspiracy theories about big brother and out the other side of their mouth they condemn all other conspiracy theories as nutty.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    I don't like the keys of general motors being in the hands of Washington. I think this is a large risk we are taking, by keeping a problematic company alive. General Motors is now being jump-started, with the hope that it can make it to through the next couple of years; where it can see it's Chinese wing bringing in mad-dough.

    The problem is that in order for General Motors to last long enough it needs the ingenuity that it's competitors have. It needs to stop the Hummer mentality and compete.

    Personally. I think we should have let General Motors evaporate. Yes, jobs would be lost, revenue would be down, and yes it would be a big problem. However, if we don't cut the cancerous tissue early, then there may be larger organs at stake... more than just a tissue.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    And for anyone who's interested? A British worker on minimum wage contributes £24(around $50) to the NHS in the form of taxes per annum and receives a high standard of care - higher, in many instancs, than that which can be received in the US.
    No, a British worker does not receive a better standard of health care than Americans. Health care in Britain sucks big time. They ration, they have massively long waiting lists for surgery, they get denied life saving drugs if the state deems it will cost too much, etc. You can read about this almost daily in some newspaper some where. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    the first part of the solution is national healthcare, the second is making a better product and the third is renegotiating with the unions

    American companies can't be competitive with foreign countries that have national healthcare. The model of employer provided health insurance only worked because the US was afforded so much prosperity after WII. It's not sustainable, and that's being illustrated clearly now.

    But it would also help if they stopped building ludicrous cars. 8 ton suburban assault vehicles might sell for a lot individually but they're far too easily affected by oil price fluctuations.
    GOT FACTS?

    National healthcare will cost EVERYONE far more than the current system, provide LESS choice, force everyone into the same mediocre care and lead to a lower customer service. The only people who will have a choice will once more be the wealthiest among us just as it is in Europe and Canada. Why do people make this farcical claim in the face of the disasters befalling our allies who have it?

    I keep seeing everyone claim this helps Europe’s industry; but Europe’s industry is far more unproductive than our own and Europe is heading for a growing disaster with the realization that the cost of these programs is expanding PAST their ability to tax their citizens for them.

    Why would ANYONE think that Government can do a better job managing the cost of healthcare watching the current infestation of idiots in Congress spend us all into a $1.8 trillion deficit, ever increasing amounts of debt and a growing disaster funding Medicare and Social Security?

    What parallel universe do we live in where anyone could think that a Government managed plan would be efficient, cost effective and actually work?

    Mercedes had merged with Chrysler; Jaguar by Ford but now by Tata an India company, Volvo owned by Ford. BMW is building cars in former East Block nations and the USA as are many other "foreign" producers. One of the largest car makers in Europe is a GM subsidiary called Opel. The notion that overseas is a better manufacturing environment than here in the USA where unions are not predominating is laughable and can only be made in a vacuum of the facts and reality.

    What is relevant is not nationalized healthcare which will only lead to mediocrity and much higher costs for fewer services to the American people; it is properly managing your labor and pension costs. When times were good, GM made the mistake of caving into its Unions.

    The Unions argument always had a populist tone that they should share in the HUGE profits and benefit from them; but they certainly did not agree that they would also share with the losses when they came. Their contracts were one-sided events supported by Democrat politicians who pander to ignorance.

    Now in the tough times, the high cost of these agreements has come home to roost and the largess of a management that became complacent.

    The notion that GM didn't make cars everyone wanted and bought is patently false and cannot be supported by the FACTS. It is equally specious to suggest that Toyota did better by having the Prius; but this vehicle as popular as it is made out to be has YET to bring a profit to Toyota. One of Toyota's best selling cars was the Tundra pickup; a BIG gas guzzling truck in direct competition to the successful models produced by GM and Ford.

    National healthcare will bankrupt the taxpayers of this great nation and will just add to the mountain of debt and deficits Democrats have YET to tell us how they will be paid for. It would be disastrous to this nation’s economy if this happens.

    Top Ten Best Selling Vehicles of 2008:

    1. Ford F-150 515,513 Units Sold: This is the 12th generation of Ford's fullsize pickup truck, and it manages to retain the mantle of the best-selling vehicle in the United States for the 23rd straight year. Still, its 515,513 sales pales in comparison to that of its heyday in the mid-2000s, when the Blue Oval sold nearly a million F-150s each year.

    2. Chevy Silverado 465,065 Units Sold: The Chevy Silverado is the perennial second-best seller here in the U.S. and it again earns that title for 2008 with a total of 465,065 units sold, despite the slowdown in truck sales due to record-high gasoline prices over the summer months. Care to guess guess what vehicle has again kept its crown for the year that just was?

    3. Toyota Camry 436,617 Units Sold: Toyota, and specifically the midsize Camry sedan, has a well-earned reputation of providing transportation for the masses of Americans that just want to get from one place to another with a reasonable amount of style and a great deal of reliability. Those virtues were enough to earn the Camry some 436,617 sales, making it the best-selling passenger car in America.

    4. Honda Accord 372,789 Units Sold: Honda has carved a sizable niche for itself out of the midsize sedan market by continually refining its high-quality, high-technology and extremely reliable sedan, the Accord. Honda's 372,789 Accord sales was enough to earn it the number 4 spot. Only one other car outsold the Accord.

    5. Toyota Corolla 351,007 Units Sold: Toyota's compact Corolla sedan is now in its 10th generation, and it continues to build on its successful formula of offering as reliable a car as possible for a relatively low price. That tried-and-true plan netted Toyota 351,007 buyers in 2008.

    6. Honda Civic 339,289 Units Sold:The Civic compact sedan marks Honda's second of three spots on the list of top sellers in 2008, with a total of 339,289 units sold. First introduced way back in 1972 as a 2-door coupe, and it's currently in its 8th generation.

    7. Nissan Altima 269,668 Units Sold: Nissan's best selling vehicle is its Altima midsize sedan, which earned 269,668 total sales in 2008. The Altima is a relative newcomer to the scene, having hit the market in 1993 and now in its third-generation. Only four cars and two trucks managed to outsell the Altima last year.

    8. Chevy Impala 265,840 Units Sold: The current Chevy Impala may not conjure up the same memories that its fullsize V8-powered forebears earned, but it's still an excellent seller for General Motors with a total of 265,840 sold in 2008.

    9. Dodge Ram 245,840 Units Sold: Dodge made a big splash in 1994 when it introduced "big rig" styling to the non-commercial pickup market, and the latest version carries that same theme a step further with all-new styling and the market's only coil-over rear suspension arrangement. Two trucks sold more than the Dodge's 245,840 units, but there are a few cars wedged firmly in between.

    10. Honda CR-V 197,279 Units Sold: Honda helped kick-start the compact crossover segment back in 1996 with its first CR-V. Now in its third-generation, the CR-V continues to offer just the right mix of space, style, efficiency and reliability for the 197,279 who drove one off the lot in 2008.


    Best Selling Cars of 2008

    How many Toyota Prius were sold? In 2008, Toyota sold 158,886 Prius hatchbacks.

    HowStuffWorks "Top 10 Selling Hybrid Cars"

    How many Toyota gas guzzling Tundras were sold? Commanding nearly 20-percent of the total market with US sales looking good to hit over 200,000 units this year.

    2008 Toyota Tundra Double Cab SR5 4X4 5.7L Road Test - Carpages.ca

    GENERAL MOTORS BEATS TOYOTA FOR WORLD SALES LEADER
    Sales figures disputed but does it matter?
    Joseph Cabadas & Michael Rose, Saturday, January 26 2008
    Great Cars | GENERAL MOTORS BEATS TOYOTA FOR WORLD SALES LEADER | Sales, Toyota, Global, Year, Company

  10. #30
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No, stupid southerners and foreign auto companies killed the big three, along with bad strategy.
    Oh really? Prove it.

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