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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Let's leave the union out for a second and make a analogy. Let's say you own a hardware store and you have 5 employees that you pay quite well with good benefits. You're making a profit and living a higher standard of living than those employees, not outrageously better but better, after all you are the own and risk taker.

    Now let's say that a foreign owned hardware store opens up across town. But they hire 10 illegal immigrants who work part time at 40% less than your employees, no benefits and they sell the same shovels only 20% less than you can sell them. Now, you have a choice
    what a ****ty example
    my ilk would shut down the foriegn hardware store and arrest and deport the illegals, and fine the owner/management. I regain 100% market share

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  2. #282
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Yeah, your anecdotal evidence and generalization must be the problem. I've never heard of a nonunion employee being lazy or taking advantage of an hourly wage...
    There is a reason not to work to fast. So that greenhorns don't make a stupid mistake that endagers other peoples lives. Safety first.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Interfering with the free matket only delays the time it takes for the free market to resolve economic issues in a positive, sustainable manner.

    The Obama (et al) are far more interested in shaping and molding the economy into their own socialist image than getting it back on the track to prospertity.
    The free market has become organized crime. If Obama wants to do something positive, then he should put Wall Street crooks on trial for betraying the public trust....
    Oracle of Utah
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  4. #284
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Then I guess what you're saying is that if labor costs were equal then GM would still be going into bankruptcy. Yes?
    No. But if you didn't understand the simple English in what you quoted from me, then this is pointless. You either are incapable of getting it or you can't help but twisting words when you know you've been shown to be wrong.

    Either way, the problem is with you.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    GM is the number one in unit sales in the world; I don't think it is a bad product issue. This is purely the cost to do business; they sell TONS of cars and more units of pickups than most of the Toyota lines combined.
    Well here we have one con saying the product is fine and not the issue. The issue being labor costs. I disagree, the Big 3 made many product mistakes. Their problems are BOTH lack of product and resource vision as well as labor costs.

    In addition, I keep hearing this absurd argument that “others” having their healthcare costs subsidized, as with many other European factories yet many have relocated plants here because it is CHEAPER to build the cars here.
    Yeah, because we have cheap labor (they don't open plants in Detroit now do they? No.) And part of that is that they don't have to cover healthcare costs here.

    There is NO such thing as "subsidized" healthcare unless you are an illegal alien or dirt poor; someone has to pay the bill therefore the society is taxed heavily for this convenience of Government mismanaged healthcare and as such, labor costs are HIGHER as are their healthcare costs.
    That's absurd. The people of foreign countries pay taxes to their government which then subsidizes the healthcare cost of that nations corporations in our country. Why? Because we are the worlds largest consumer market.

    Theirs are cheaper you say? Not really; why do you think there is a shortage of specialists and limitations on certain types of care and long waiting lines. Their Governments manage the skyrocketing costs of their inefficiencies by cutting services, specialization and research and development.
    More nonsensical neocon corporatist propaganda. Need an organ transplant? Waiting list... If national healthcare is so horrible then why do most of the industrialized and progressive nations have it and have had it for decades?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    No, you misunderstand my point completely, or are just ignoring it.
    No I understood your point perfectly well which is why you don't like the answer you don't like I responded with.

    It's cheaper to live in the south, as you've already admitted. If we can live better on less income than northerners, why should employers pay more. I make a very good living now, but I would be a pauper in New York City.
    Why do you think that is?

    And by the way.... we don't want or need any more people moving here.
    Why not? Because they increase the cost of housing and then other goods and services as well??

    The people in the Toyota plant here in Kentucky are very happy at their jobs. In contrast, employees at the two ford plants are constantly griping about one thing or another.
    Yes of course, in your completely unbiased opinion.

    As a side note, you can eat off the floor of the Toyota plant. After walking through either of the Ford plants, I need to buy a new pair of shoes. That says something for the pride of the people working in the two different plants.
    Again you must be right because you are unbiased...

  7. #287
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Yeah, because we have cheap labor (they don't open plants in Detroit now do they? No.) And part of that is that they don't have to cover healthcare costs here.
    Are you claiming that foreign car makers that have plants here in the U.S. don't give their employees heath insurance????

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I hated going to UAW plants. We are there, as guests of the company, working to sort parts to ensure that no mistakes get through, and the workers feel it is there job to treat us like crap because we are not in a union. Hell, we could not even use the nice bathroom, but had these trashy old ones to use for the nonunion visitors.
    Can you blame them? You're looked upon as a scab. Scabs harm the union effort therefore union workers aren't going to be appreciative of your nonunion status which undermines the employee benefits gained by union negotiations.

    The funny thing is that people like to talk about the free market but not if it's labor force has any power to negotiate. If your employer needs a new boat he can just lay you off, put your work on someone else and pocket the profit. But with a union this can't be done. They will strike and force the employer to be fair. Isn't THAT more of a free market?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    At the Ford plants here in Louisville, you can't park on the property if you have a foreign car. They make you park at least 1/2 mile away. I have a Chevy and the person I was working for didn't think they would let me in, but they did. She warned me that it might get vandalized.

    At Toyota, they could care less what you are driving.
    Isn't Toyota wonderful... not that this has anything to do with the topic.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If you need a job, and someone 2 or 3 states away offers you one, and you don't take it, you should lose all unemployment/welfare/food stamp benefits....
    What you do is MOVE, and associate with your NEW community. See? Your first community cannot afford to feed you forever. Comes a point that you have to DO something for yourself....and in this case it is called moving to a community with more jobs than employees....a community that needs YOU as much as you need it...
    Yes we already know that you lack the ability to understand socioeconomic/community ties or empathize. You've already admitted that and we discussed it.

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