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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

  1. #271
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I'm all for that, but everyone has to get on board . . . starting with the President.
    Interfering with the free matket only delays the time it takes for the free market to resolve economic issues in a positive, sustainable manner.

    The Obama (et al) are far more interested in shaping and molding the economy into their own socialist image than getting it back on the track to prospertity.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Yeah, the Big Three, (Toyota, Honda, Nissan), and then there is Subaru, Mitsubishi,Mazda, Suzuki..
    We could learn from the Japanese....
    But did we ??
    And the Germans, and they are soon due for retiring hundreds of working men....its also 40 years for them...
    And lets, maybe for the first time ever, be fair about things.
    The UAW takes a hit, and the overpaid auto industry executives must also be censured..
    Our government has failed in not helping long ago.....the education of our young, as I see in these forums, is poor...
    The bottom line is....we all have failed....lets learn and work toward a new beginning for our industry and our nation....
    Forget the blame game - with mirrors, this does not work...it only wastes time....
    The sad part of this is that the American Big 3 taught the world, how to make a car through modern mass production methods.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I begining to wonder if slippery slope is a union spokesperson


    I remember people talking about unionizing the entire nation years ago. I cannot believe that anyone would think that would work in the favor of the labor force.
    Yeah, how could that possibly work. I mean, we wouldn't want labor to have the upper hand over corporations... they might actually have to pay higher wages for the good of the country. Yeah, better to just keep allowing corps to turn our country into a third world labor market.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You are in an unbelievable state of denial.

    You raise operating costs on Toyota, you make it more expensive to operate, period.

    This does not make GM better or more competitive in any way. It only makes things more expensive for Toyota.

    Now, it may have the ancillary effect of causing Toyota to raise its prices and take the market up to a point where GM can bring in enough money to survive, but that's not because GM did anything better. It's only because you're putting an extra burden on Toyota.

    That's as plain as day. That's basic math.

    If you deny this, if you insist it isn't so, it's like arguing about why things fall and you insisting that there is no gravity. You're just babbling nonsense.




    Where do we see any union busting here?
    Then I guess what you're saying is that if labor costs were equal then GM would still be going into bankruptcy. Yes?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So you're saying the automakers or autoworkers unionized to avoid raising the price of the cars they make?

    Doesn't that strike you as more than extremely strange?
    Yes, that would be strange. Good thing I didn't say that.

    What "unfair" competition? The fact that other countries now make much better cars? Or the fact that other countries aren't as stifled by unions as the Big Three were in the northern states?
    Right, there we are again, "stifled by unions". Which means you think labor costs for the big three are "stifling". Why are they stifling? Because their competition doesn't have the same costs?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Where did those legacy cots come from? Bloated retirement deals made with the union...
    OK so now the union retirement contracts are Bloated. Says who? I doubt you'll find many union retirees who would agree with you. But again, you "feel" like they are bloated because their competition doesn't have these "bloated costs"?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Take economics or learn history. Tariffs are terrible ideas.
    Really? I think maybe you should take a history lesson. ALL nations have tariffs. This includes the USA which has had tariffs since it's founding.

  8. #278
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    I believe that is what is called 'building a better mouse trap'
    better cars, lower costs, better profit margins
    I do not keep up with these kind of things but i remember my father telling me that the Camry was the #1 stolen car for many years, because it was the #1 car sold in america
    if you build a better product teh rest deserve to die
    Let's leave the union out for a second and make a analogy. Let's say you own a hardware store and you have 5 employees that you pay quite well with good benefits. You're making a profit and living a higher standard of living than those employees, not outrageously better but better, after all you are the own and risk taker.

    Now let's say that a foreign owned hardware store opens up across town. But they hire 10 illegal immigrants who work part time at 40% less than your employees, no benefits and they sell the same shovels only 20% less than you can sell them. Now, you have a choice, either you can A) go out of business or B) lower your labor cost. What will you do? You're stuck because of unfair competition. So you lower your wages, cut hours, and your good employees eventually quit because they can no longer afford to work for you. So do you hire 10 Illegals and work them part time just to compete? How have you helped your coummunity and the economy?

    Your ilk says but now more people can buy the shovels because they are cheaper. Except the people can't afford the shovel because their wages are too low. Now you and your competition are on equal terms. But, the foreign company is no longer making as much profit because you've gotten back some business that they aroginally took from you. So the foreign company lobbies congress to allow the import of cheaper shovels from their home nation. Now they've got you at a disadvantage because you buy shovels from a local shovel plant. What do you do? You stop buying the local made shovel and buy the cheaper imported one. Now the local shovel plant goes out of business. But you can compete with your competition. But of course the foreign company wants to take your customers again so they have their government subsidize healthcare for them. Now they have a lower employment cost again. This time however, you can't do the same thing because your town says NO to SOCIALIZED medicine. We can't have the insurance companies going out of business after all... Who would you pay your premiums to? A doctor? NO WAY!!

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Know that that means?

    It means we need to go back to what Reagan did and repeat it. All the ills you're talking about came into being AFTER The Great One left office and the liberals resumed polluting the seats of power.
    Unfortunately you've been fooled by the Reagan Legacy Project. We started seeing these declines and problems BECAUSE of what Reagan started... Actually some of it started with Nixon... HMOs anyone.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    ask any union member
    they pull the new guy to the side real quick if he works too fast
    why is it, when i lived in NY every union worker was usually just standing around on the job site
    did i just happen to drive by on one of their ridiculously negotiated coffee breaks despite it occuring at all hours of the day
    Yeah, your anecdotal evidence and generalization must be the problem. I've never heard of a nonunion employee being lazy or taking advantage of an hourly wage...

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