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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    I begining to wonder if slippery slope is a union spokesperson


    I remember people talking about unionizing the entire nation years ago. I cannot believe that anyone would think that would work in the favor of the labor force.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No the analogy is bad because unionizing is not akin to decreased productivity which is basically the concept of the analogy and therefore it fails. You're not harming Toyota (except their profit margin which is PLENTY good) but you ARE benefiting the worker who can then afford OTHER goods and services thereby increasing the economy and standard of living.
    You are in an unbelievable state of denial.

    You raise operating costs on Toyota, you make it more expensive to operate, period.

    This does not make GM better or more competitive in any way. It only makes things more expensive for Toyota.

    Now, it may have the ancillary effect of causing Toyota to raise its prices and take the market up to a point where GM can bring in enough money to survive, but that's not because GM did anything better. It's only because you're putting an extra burden on Toyota.

    That's as plain as day. That's basic math.

    If you deny this, if you insist it isn't so, it's like arguing about why things fall and you insisting that there is no gravity. You're just babbling nonsense.


    Now we see union busting and corporations unregulated and what have we had since Reagan?
    Where do we see any union busting here?
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    The big 3 are already unionized so they wouldn't need to increase the price of their cars. Too bad if foreign auto makers can't compete after unionizing.
    So you're saying the automakers or autoworkers unionized to avoid raising the price of the cars they make?

    Doesn't that strike you as more than extremely strange?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No, unfair competition is forcing them to cut costs in order to compete and what's the easiest cost to control? Labor.
    What "unfair" competition? The fact that other countries now make much better cars? Or the fact that other countries aren't as stifled by unions as the Big Three were in the northern states?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Now you're getting somewhere. Legacy contracts decrease GM profits because GM has 100+ years of people retiring while foreign auto makers do not have that legacy cost associated. So perhaps we should do what other countries do... add a tariff to level the playing field.
    Where did those legacy cots come from? Bloated retirement deals made with the union...

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Now you're getting somewhere. Legacy contracts decrease GM profits because GM has 100+ years of people retiring while foreign auto makers do not have that legacy cost associated. So perhaps we should do what other countries do... add a tariff to level the playing field.
    Take economics or learn history. Tariffs are terrible ideas.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Unionize Toyota. The Big 3 did just fine selling cars before foreign competition. Competition is good, but not unfair competition.
    I believe that is what is called 'building a better mouse trap'
    better cars, lower costs, better profit margins
    I do not keep up with these kind of things but i remember my father telling me that the Camry was the #1 stolen car for many years, because it was the #1 car sold in america
    if you build a better product teh rest deserve to die

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No the analogy is bad because unionizing is not akin to decreased productivity which is basically the concept of the analogy and therefore it fails. You're not harming Toyota (except their profit margin which is PLENTY good) but you ARE benefiting the worker who can then afford OTHER goods and services thereby increasing the economy and standard of living. This is the history of our country since the great depression until Reagan. Now we see union busting and corporations unregulated and what have we had since Reagan? Bubbles and a decrease in the middle class.
    Know that that means?

    It means we need to go back to what Reagan did and repeat it. All the ills you're talking about came into being AFTER The Great One left office and the liberals resumed polluting the seats of power.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Now you're getting somewhere. Legacy contracts decrease GM profits because GM has 100+ years of people retiring while foreign auto makers do not have that legacy cost associated. So perhaps we should do what other countries do... add a tariff to level the playing field.
    I kinda figure that we can pretty much discount the cost impact of the first sixty years of those retirements.

  9. #249
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No the analogy is bad because unionizing is not akin to decreased productivity which is basically the concept of the analogy and therefore it fails. You're not harming Toyota (except their profit margin which is PLENTY good) but you ARE benefiting the worker who can then afford OTHER goods and services thereby increasing the economy and standard of living. This is the history of our country since the great depression until Reagan. Now we see union busting and corporations unregulated and what have we had since Reagan? Bubbles and a decrease in the middle class.
    ask any union member
    they pull the new guy to the side real quick if he works too fast
    why is it, when i lived in NY every union worker was usually just standing around on the job site
    did i just happen to drive by on one of their ridiculously negotiated coffee breaks despite it occuring at all hours of the day

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    From the arguments made in this thread it seems that:
    1) GM has high production costs
    2) GM has made bad product decisions

    Seems like number one is related to labor costs. GM would be outselling Toyota if only they didn't have such high labor costs. The arguments seem to be that Toyota has a higher profit margin allowing them to sell a comparable car at a cheaper price.

    Therefore you can either lower the wage for GM employees or raise the wage for Toyota employees. Toyota has it's healthcare costs subsidized by it's government and it pays a lower wage for the same job as a GM employee.
    GM is the number one in unit sales in the world; I don't think it is a bad product issue. This is purely the cost to do business; they sell TONS of cars and more units of pickups than most of the Toyota lines combined.

    In addition, I keep hearing this absurd argument that “others” having their healthcare costs subsidized, as with many other European factories yet many have relocated plants here because it is CHEAPER to build the cars here.

    There is NO such thing as "subsidized" healthcare unless you are an illegal alien or dirt poor; someone has to pay the bill therefore the society is taxed heavily for this convenience of Government mismanaged healthcare and as such, labor costs are HIGHER as are their healthcare costs.

    Theirs are cheaper you say? Not really; why do you think there is a shortage of specialists and limitations on certain types of care and long waiting lines. Their Governments manage the skyrocketing costs of their inefficiencies by cutting services, specialization and research and development.

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