Page 24 of 34 FirstFirst ... 142223242526 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 340

Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

  1. #231
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    The big 3 are already unionized so they wouldn't need to increase the price of their cars. Too bad if foreign auto makers can't compete after unionizing.
    But that's exactly what would happen. Once all are unionized under the same union, then they will demand higher wages. Well, that will lead to universal higher prices for cars.

    No, unfair competition is forcing them to cut costs in order to compete and what's the easiest cost to control? Labor.
    What do you think competition is?

    Yes but they can then sell it cheaper.
    And as I showed, other products that they sell must necessarily be more expensive. In the end it's a wash, except for inefficiency that is inherent to subsidization. In the end, it's our advantage.

    The problem is that our companies have tariffs placed on our goods and corporations (where foreign owned companies are even allowed to exist).
    Tarrifs mean that the country will have less innovation. Again, better for us.

    This is untrue, especially given the answer above.
    Government is nowhere near as efficient as the private sector at distributing the means of production.
    Last edited by phattonez; 06-04-09 at 07:18 PM.

  2. #232
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:58 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,299
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    They have been asked and what do they say? The cons have convinced them that unions are bad.
    Look over to the left a second:

    <--------see where it says "liberal".

    I voted against the UAW twice. I would have had to pay a union due and would not have gained much. Further, in a union, you have to follow your employers rules, and the rules of the union. I got enough rules to follow.

  3. #233
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:29 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,535

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    The big 3 are already unionized so they wouldn't need to increase the price of their cars.


    Yeah. They wouldn't have to, because their current prices are bringing in enough money to cover costs.

    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #234
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    in a neocon's craw
    Last Seen
    04-24-17 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,801

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If I'm a part of a union that demands too much, then I have to still go along with them and I risk getting fired.
    The union prevents you from being fired for not doing whatever the corporation wants in the area of compensation. If the company insists on trying to lower your compensation beyond what the union deems reasonable (via membership vote) then you go on strike.
    Some wage is better than no wage.
    VIOLA, see how the cons get you with a specious argument. Some wage is NOT better than no wage when it can be avoided. Nonunionized works have this to fear because they either have to go along with what the corp wants or be fired.

    But if a union gets a company to demand that new employees join the union, then that's their prerogative. However, if the competition has no union, then I wouldn't expect that company to last too long (barring government favoritism).
    VIOLA! Now you understand what is happening to GM.

  5. #235
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    in a neocon's craw
    Last Seen
    04-24-17 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,801

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Would you rather just have GM close it's doors? Then no one gets anything except a few creditors. GM loses, the retirees lose, the creditors lose, the workers lose. It is not in the workers best interest to not renegotiate.
    Renegotiating is fine, union busting so that employers can pay less is not.

  6. #236
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:58 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,299
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Renegotiating is fine, union busting so that employers can pay less is not.
    No union has been busted.

  7. #237
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    The union prevents you from being fired for not doing whatever the corporation wants in the area of compensation. If the company insists on trying to lower your compensation beyond what the union deems reasonable (via membership vote) then you go on strike.
    Again, that leads to the weakness of the company. You demand too much and the company will go out of business.

    VIOLA, see how the cons get you with a specious argument. Some wage is NOT better than no wage when it can be avoided. Nonunionized works have this to fear because they either have to go along with what the corp wants or be fired.
    You're refusing to see the big picture. Corporations are not a bottomless pit.

    VIOLA! Now you understand what is happening to GM.
    Their union made them weak and now they're failing (for other reasons too).

  8. #238
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    in a neocon's craw
    Last Seen
    04-24-17 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,801

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Hardly. You advocate raising costs on the other companies in a bid to make GM competitive. You've said this at least half a dozen times.

    All that does is cripple the other companies. It doesn't make GM better.

    This is exactly what was done in a Harrison Bergeron classroom -- the better students were literally dumbed down so that they wouldn't perform better than the poorer students. THAT'S what you want to do.

    According to your reasoning, Tanya Harding was made a more competitive skater because her boyfriend piped Nancy Kerrigan.
    No the analogy is bad because unionizing is not akin to decreased productivity which is basically the concept of the analogy and therefore it fails. You're not harming Toyota (except their profit margin which is PLENTY good) but you ARE benefiting the worker who can then afford OTHER goods and services thereby increasing the economy and standard of living. This is the history of our country since the great depression until Reagan. Now we see union busting and corporations unregulated and what have we had since Reagan? Bubbles and a decrease in the middle class.

  9. #239
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:29 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,535

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    The whole purpose of bankruptcy protection is to get a company (or person) out from under its crushing weight of obligations and become lighter, more efficient, and more competitive in order to have a chance at survival.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  10. #240
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    in a neocon's craw
    Last Seen
    04-24-17 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,801

    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It does not even make GM competitive. It's not salaries that are hurting GM much, it's the legacy costs associated with retirees. How do you balance that with Toyota?
    Now you're getting somewhere. Legacy contracts decrease GM profits because GM has 100+ years of people retiring while foreign auto makers do not have that legacy cost associated. So perhaps we should do what other countries do... add a tariff to level the playing field.

Page 24 of 34 FirstFirst ... 142223242526 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •