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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

  1. #181
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    In and of themselves, labor unions are just fine; people have the right to assemble. But like anything else, they can become a problem. The UAW shows many examples of these problems.

    There's a reason section 8(b) of the National Labor Relations Act exists.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Of course they can. It is America is it not? Do what Reagan did to the air controllers.. fire the bunch and hire others.
    Right, because it's just that simple.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Isn't one of the goals of a union to develop superior skill sets for its members there by making them more efficient and more valuable as an employee?
    What the **** have you been smoking? The only demands a union makes on its membership are for their union dues.
    Let's figure it out.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Oh I just thinking that there is positive purpose unions can serve.
    Deal with reality.
    Let's figure it out.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I think I will be selling my Corvette. Having it serviced by the DMV is a rather scary proposition.
    Can you find no private service shops?
    Let's figure it out.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    So, if a person working in a southern auto factory makes $50,000. / year and it costs $30,000. for him and his family to live in a nice house, feed them, pay utilities, taxes, etc., then they are able to save $20,000.

    His counterpart in Michigan makes $70,000., but it costs him and his family $60,000. in living expenses, which one is the "stupid" one.

    After all, you've already described in detail how much cheaper it is to live in the south.
    Excellent EXCELLENT point.
    Let's figure it out.

  7. #187
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Once again your simplistic bumper sticker arguments ignore the realities of the higher productivity rates of these workers, lower investment costs to manufacture in these states and a lot of other FACTS that make these areas far better locations to do business in than states infested with the Liberal Union mentality of their politicians.

    It doesn't undermine my argument; it undermines your desperate attempts to suggest that they are working for far less because they might be dumb rednecks.

    Carry on; your bumper sticker mentality is merely more evidence of the lack of any attempts on you or other Liberals to make the effort to have coherent and substantive arguments.
    From the arguments made in this thread it seems that:
    1) GM has high production costs
    2) GM has made bad product decisions

    Seems like number one is related to labor costs. GM would be outselling Toyota if only they didn't have such high labor costs. The arguments seem to be that Toyota has a higher profit margin allowing them to sell a comparable car at a cheaper price.

    Therefore you can either lower the wage for GM employees or raise the wage for Toyota employees. Toyota has it's healthcare costs subsidized by it's government and it pays a lower wage for the same job as a GM employee.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I understand affording in the financial sense, but not the social sense.

    Perhaps it is because I have no roots, no family connection, that I am so "portable".
    My sister relied on my mother to babysit thereby saving her HUGE amounts of money on childcare. My neighbor basically works to pay for the cost of childcare. There's one example.

    People who anchor themselves to one spot, or just HAVE to be near mom and dad, are handicapping themselves.

    After 12 years in the navy, we lived 8 years in Idaho, in my wife's hometown. During that time, I had 3 different jobs, all with the same company. If one boss doesn't treat me right, I look for another. Then we moved to AZ, for a LOT more money. The wife didn't like it at first, as she wanted to be near family, but she got over it. The big pay raises we got helped a lot toward her adjusting to the move. In AZ, over a 20 year period, I worked 3 different jobs for that company, changing everytime I felt I had "peaked". During that 20 years, my wife worked for the same school district, but at 3 different schools, and for awhile in a district level job.

    During all that time, I saw lots of people stuck in positions where they were not happy, and some of them had more skills than I ever will.
    Clinging to your comfort zone is costly. Working the same job at the same place as daddy worked is not progress.

    With enough education and a willingness to MOVE, there are plenty of jobs for those willing to do what it takes. To be fair, that isn't so easy anymore....current situations are new to us as a nation.
    But the fact remains, way too many of us aim low and hit the mark right out of high school, and call it success. It isn't.
    IMO, things are just going to get harder for the next few generations, until things settle out into whatever viable economy works for us..
    Well it's obvious that you really don't understand the value many people get out of their community. You also, like me, have the ability to pack up and move on to a better situation but many people have roots, best friends, family, church, whatever. My wife lived her entire life in N.CA. and it was VERY difficult for me to convince her to move 3000 miles from everyone she knows. It took 2 years before she started to feel comfortable here. I was in the military so, like you, I pulled up my roots long ago and it's been much easier for people like us to move around the country.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    If the contract with the UAW hurts the company to the point that they have to lay off people(ie, the situation now), then referring to those in the southern nonunion factories making more than those up north who are unemployed is a legit comparison.
    But why is the contract hurting the company? Because their competition has lower wage costs. Raise the wage in the south and suddenly GMs contracts are no longer a problem. THEN, all auto workers will make a better living. It's what drove the middle class before foreign car companies ever opened their first plant in the USA. Remember?

  10. #190
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    From the arguments made in this thread it seems that:
    1) GM has high production costs
    2) GM has made bad product decisions

    Seems like number one is related to labor costs. GM would be outselling Toyota if only they didn't have such high labor costs. The arguments seem to be that Toyota has a higher profit margin allowing them to sell a comparable car at a cheaper price.

    Therefore you can either lower the wage for GM employees or raise the wage for Toyota employees. Toyota has it's healthcare costs subsidized by it's government and it pays a lower wage for the same job as a GM employee.
    GM does have high production costs, but labor is far from the only reason for that. Legacy costs(mostly related to labor), inefficiencies, being slow to modernize methods and equipment, these are big parts of the high production cost. Labor is a contributor to GMs troubles, but certainly is not the only, or even necessarily the biggest reason for those troubles.

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