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Thread: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

  1. #141
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Well, you know I'm going to say that, as a matter of course, you lack empathy. How unusual for a con. Like it or not, most people cannot afford (financially and/or socially) to pick up and move their family every time an employer takes advantage of them.
    I understand affording in the financial sense, but not the social sense.

    Perhaps it is because I have no roots, no family connection, that I am so "portable".

    People who anchor themselves to one spot, or just HAVE to be near mom and dad, are handicapping themselves.

    After 12 years in the navy, we lived 8 years in Idaho, in my wife's hometown. During that time, I had 3 different jobs, all with the same company. If one boss doesn't treat me right, I look for another. Then we moved to AZ, for a LOT more money. The wife didn't like it at first, as she wanted to be near family, but she got over it. The big pay raises we got helped a lot toward her adjusting to the move. In AZ, over a 20 year period, I worked 3 different jobs for that company, changing everytime I felt I had "peaked". During that 20 years, my wife worked for the same school district, but at 3 different schools, and for awhile in a district level job.

    During all that time, I saw lots of people stuck in positions where they were not happy, and some of them had more skills than I ever will.
    Clinging to your comfort zone is costly. Working the same job at the same place as daddy worked is not progress.
    With enough education and a willingness to MOVE, there are plenty of jobs for those willing to do what it takes. To be fair, that isn't so easy anymore....current situations are new to us as a nation.
    But the fact remains, way too many of us aim low and hit the mark right out of high school, and call it success. It isn't.
    IMO, things are just going to get harder for the next few generations, until things settle out into whatever viable economy works for us..
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  2. #142
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Come on, Redress... let's not turn each other into fools by making silly riech-wing style arguments. I mean, seriously... they are making a better wage than the unemployed?

    As for making a living wage... I guess we'll have to go through the pointless exercise of determining what each of us considers a living wage and then denying each others position... I'll save us all a lot of time and grief. I withdraw the "living wage" phrase and replace it with "a comparable wage". Feeling better?
    If the contract with the UAW hurts the company to the point that they have to lay off people(ie, the situation now), then referring to those in the southern nonunion factories making more than those up north who are unemployed is a legit comparison.

  3. #143
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Don't ALL employees NEGOTIATE these things as part of their compensation? So I guess ALL employees try to get more pay for less work.
    Yeah. They DO. So why wouldn't a UNION comprised of them try to do the same thing? YOU say they don't.


    I'll just let you bask in the stupidity of that statement.
    YOU brought it up. It was simply to expose the stupidity of YOUR statement.

    Once the government nationalizes all the car companies and drives EVERYONE'S labor costs up, then ALL car prices will go up. It's simple math.

    You, of course, seem to think I meant that GM's car prices are higher now, but that's not what I said, and HELLO -- of COURSE they can't sell their cars at higher than market price, which is why they're in trouble -- they're not bringing in enough money to cover costs. Even though they're selling plenty of cars.

    Fortunately not everyone in the country has your failing eyesight.
    Hey, you're the one saying you see no GM cars out there. Really. Go take a look.


    Which you think says what? That it's employment costs? I'm fine with that. So let's force Toyota to pay an equal wage and not subsidize their employee healthcare through their government... level the playing field, and you might see GM on top once more. But no, instead you want everyone to lower their wages to that of foreign companies... how very American of you.
    Which is exactly what I'm saying. That doesn't make GM more competitive. It makes the other companies LESS competitive and drags them down to GM.

    And yes, you drive costs up for everyone, the price of cars will go up. It's that simple.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No one has yet to explain WHY American companies should lower their employment costs (wages and benefits) to compete with foreign companies who sell their products to Americans. I know you cons keep saying they should lower those costs but you haven't laid out why. I mean other than to increase corporate profits.
    How about simply being able to compete and survive?

    Besides, since WHEN did simply making a profit become a prima facie evil in this country? Let's see all your tax records. Are you making a profit in your self-employed world? Well, you must be screwing someone, because if you're bringing in more money than you're spending, then you're not paying someone enough. Put your money where your mouth is.

    (And if you're making a LOT of profit, well, the more evil you are. Apparently.)
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #145
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No I aint. I am saying GM is failing because of bone head decisions by the management over the decades and this includes the insane labour costs.
    No, you don't. You keep referring to making "cars no one wants" as being to blame.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #146
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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No one has yet to explain WHY American companies should lower their employment costs (wages and benefits) to compete with foreign companies who sell their products to Americans. I know you cons keep saying they should lower those costs but you haven't laid out why. I mean other than to increase corporate profits.
    I am not a con, but the reason would be the ability to be competitive. It does not serve the UAW nor it's members to have any UAW shop be closed due to the company being less competitive.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am not a con, but the reason would be the ability to be competitive. It does not serve the UAW nor it's members to have any UAW shop be closed due to the company being less competitive.
    Isn't one of the goals of a union to develop superior skill sets for its members there by making them more efficient and more valuable as an employee?

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Isn't one of the goals of a union to develop superior skill sets for its members there by making them more efficient and more valuable as an employee?
    I would hope so, can't speak to that from experience, but it sounds good.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I would hope so, can't speak to that from experience, but it sounds good.
    In my experience working with a union people would have be qualified to do certain jobs like drive a fork lift or do rigging.

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    Re: GM goes bankrupt and gets nationalised

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    In my experience working with a union people would have be qualified to do certain jobs like drive a fork lift or do rigging.
    OK. Where you going with this? I am nonunion and have a forklift and crane license. I think I am missing something.

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