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Israel debates 'loyalty' law

This ain't no excuse to shoot rockets from a person's house. It simply tells Israel "If you're gonna shoot, we'll take down civilians with us."
I don't expect Hamas to launch rockets from open fields as it'd just be slaughtered easily. That doesn't mean I won't object to them shooting at our civilians while taking hostage their own. That is a double crime against humanity, and I cannot accept it.

I never supported hamas shooting rockets. They never shot them FROM people's houses that's simply bogus. But when the IDF attacks them, they are not going to go sit in open fields and you agreed.

If the journalists were to die, it'd deal a much larger damage to Israel than blocking their entrance.
Israel did the right thing in not letting them in.

I was a war photographer myself for many years and it is not acceptable by the journalistic code for military forces not to allow journalists into areas of conflict. It is a violation to the professional code, as simple as that.
 
I never supported hamas shooting rockets. They never shot them FROM people's houses that's simply bogus. But when the IDF attacks them, they are not going to go sit in open fields and you agreed.
No, it's not simply bogus, there's enough evidence to support the claim that they do so.
And the fact that I agreed Hamas members aren't going to shoot rockets from open fields means I'm a realist, not that I'm fine with them shooting rockets from houses.
I was a war photographer myself for many years and it is not acceptable by the journalistic code for military forces not to allow journalists into areas of conflict. It is a violation to the professional code, as simple as that.
A violation Israel can handle.
 
No, it's not simply bogus, there's enough evidence to support the claim that they do so.
And the fact that I agreed Hamas members aren't going to shoot rockets from open fields means I'm a realist, not that I'm fine with them shooting rockets from houses.
A violation Israel can handle.

Show me the evidence that they were shooting from homes and I'll accpet it.

Yes, Israel has handled a huge numbers of violations, including U.N. resolutions and the use of illegal weapons. I'm sure that they can handle this one also.
 
Show me the evidence that they were shooting from homes and I'll accpet it.
What kind of evidence do you want? Would a video taken from the air showing a rocket launching from a house do?
Yes, Israel has handled a huge numbers of violations, including U.N. resolutions and the use of illegal weapons. I'm sure that they can handle this one also.
I only speak of the journalists thing, but hey, whatever suits your imagination. ;)
 
What kind of evidence do you want? Would a video taken from the air showing a rocket launching from a house do?
I only speak of the journalists thing, but hey, whatever suits your imagination. ;)

Yes, a video will be just fine.

My imagination ? Why did they leave hundreds of thousands of cluster bombs in South Lebanon that are still killing and maiming civilians ?
 
Yes, a video will be just fine.

My imagination ? Why did they leave hundreds of thousands of cluster bombs in South Lebanon that are still killing and maiming civilians ?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAokqVFMvWU&feature=related]YouTube - Israeli Air Force Strikes Rocket Launcher 27.12.08[/ame]

They didn't leave cluster bombs there. Leaving cluster bombs would mean they purposely just left it there for it to explode later. Cluster bombs have a high rate of bombs that fail to explode when being launched. It's not considered an illegal weapon, however, and many countries use it.
 
YouTube - Israeli Air Force Strikes Rocket Launcher 27.12.08

They didn't leave cluster bombs there. Leaving cluster bombs would mean they purposely just left it there for it to explode later. Cluster bombs have a high rate of bombs that fail to explode when being launched. It's not considered an illegal weapon, however, and many countries use it.

yes, I've seen that film already, in a densely populated area empty schools and mosques are good hiding palces. As for hiding weapons in homes, it is their homes, they are a militia and live among their families.

The use of children as fighters has always been the case for decades and I find it very sad. I have interviewed a few of them and it's very shocking.
They all feel responsible in taking part in the resistence, even women and children.

The cluster bombs that they left behind in South Lebanon were old stocks and they knew very well that the majority would not explode on impact. They used them anyway and until this day, civilians are getting killed and maimed. Most of them have been removed by experts and many are still burried in the ground.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96jWB3Q-MvI&feature=channel_page]YouTube - Israeli Soldier Speaks the Truth on BBC[/ame]

edit: sorry, not the one you posted, I've seen another one.
 
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illegal weapons and cluster bombs

IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon - Haaretz - Israel News


Last update - 00:00 12/09/2006

IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon

By Meron Rappaport



"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.

In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.

The rocket unit commander stated that Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) platforms were heavily used in spite of the fact that they were known to be highly inaccurate.
 
yes, I've seen that film already, in a densely populated area empty schools and mosques are good hiding palces. As for hiding weapons in homes, it is their homes, they are a militia and live among their families.

The use of children as fighters has always been the case for decades and I find it very sad. I have interviewed a few of them and it's very shocking.
They all feel responsible in taking part in the resistence, even women and children.

The cluster bombs that they left behind in South Lebanon were old stocks and they knew very well that the majority would not explode on impact. They used them anyway and until this day, civilians are getting killed and maimed. Most of them have been removed by experts and many are still burried in the ground.

YouTube - Israeli Soldier Speaks the Truth on BBC

edit: sorry, not the one you posted, I've seen another one.
Israel gains nothing from simply killing civilians. This is just ridiculous. Cluster bombs are legal weapons and their high detonation failure rate didn't stop them from being legal weapons.

And about the 'resistance', yes, the mighty resistance. We all saw how fast they ran to their sewers once the IDF reached the city. They're not a resistance to the IDF but rather to humanity itself.

Also, the guy in that video belongs to the far-left political wing in Israel. It's hilarious how they tried to show him as a patriot who loves his country.
 
Israel gains nothing from simply killing civilians. This is just ridiculous. Cluster bombs are legal weapons and their high detonation failure rate didn't stop them from being legal weapons.

And about the 'resistance', yes, the mighty resistance. We all saw how fast they ran to their sewers once the IDF reached the city. They're not a resistance to the IDF but rather to humanity itself.

Also, the guy in that video belongs to the far-left political wing in Israel. It's hilarious how they tried to show him as a patriot who loves his country.

What you consider terrorists, they consider resistants. Weather you like it or not, weather I like it or not, that's the case.

I'm glad that there's a left-wing in Israel that realise the crimes of their country, and I'm glad that there are many like me who realise the crimes of my people.

You cannot deny that the cluster and phosphorous bombs caused unnecessary civilian casualties and they are still causing damage until today.

Israel is not the just and merciful state that you'd like it to be. I have no problem admitting our mistakes, why are you having so much trouble admitting those that Israel has comitted ?
 
What you consider terrorists, they consider resistants. Weather you like it or not, weather I like it or not, that's the case.

I'm glad that there's a left-wing in Israel that realise the crimes of their country, and I'm glad that there are many like me who realise the crimes of my people.

You cannot deny that the cluster and phosphorous bombs caused unnecessary civilian casualties and they are still causing damage until today.

Israel is not the just and merciful state that you'd like it to be. I have no problem admitting our mistakes, why are you having so much trouble admitting those that Israel has comitted ?
Wow. Just wow.
You keep pressing me to admit mistakes Israel did. That's nice and hippie and peaceful and all, but I don't see any mistakes. Yes, Israel is the just and moral country I'd wish it to be. It is the people of Israel who rule the country, as a democracy, and not some terrorist group that does whatever it wishes. We grow on western values of humanity and justice. We don't kill civilians. Simple and clear, we don't get anything from doing it and we will never murder innocents. That is just wrong, and no matter how many self-hating folks would admit alleged 'mistakes' that Israel did, I would not recognize a mistake that I don't believe my country did.
 
Wow. Just wow.
You keep pressing me to admit mistakes Israel did. That's nice and hippie and peaceful and all, but I don't see any mistakes. Yes, Israel is the just and moral country I'd wish it to be. It is the people of Israel who rule the country, as a democracy, and not some terrorist group that does whatever it wishes. We grow on western values of humanity and justice. We don't kill civilians. Simple and clear, we don't get anything from doing it and we will never murder innocents. That is just wrong, and no matter how many self-hating folks would admit alleged 'mistakes' that Israel did, I would not recognize a mistake that I don't believe my country did.

The only way this statement is justified is if you believe all Palestinians/Lebanese to be terrorists and not civilians, which is an equally absurd statement.
 
Wow. Just wow.
You keep pressing me to admit mistakes Israel did. That's nice and hippie and peaceful and all, but I don't see any mistakes. Yes, Israel is the just and moral country I'd wish it to be. It is the people of Israel who rule the country, as a democracy, and not some terrorist group that does whatever it wishes. We grow on western values of humanity and justice. We don't kill civilians. Simple and clear, we don't get anything from doing it and we will never murder innocents. That is just wrong, and no matter how many self-hating folks would admit alleged 'mistakes' that Israel did, I would not recognize a mistake that I don't believe my country did.


You DO murder innocents, you DO murder civilians, you DO break all the laws of human rights, you DO break U.N. resolutions, you DO use illegal weapons, you DO humiliate elderly people at checkpoints, you DO shoot at ambulances, you DO raid homes, you DO kill children on their way to school.......

I have seen many of your crimes with my own eyes, you can deny all you want but that does NOT change the reality.
 
The only way this statement is justified is if you believe all Palestinians/Lebanese to be terrorists and not civilians, which is an equally absurd statement.
My bad, I've meant "We don't murder civilians". Hopefully it'd help you sleep at nights.
 
My bad, I've meant "We don't murder civilians". Hopefully it'd help you sleep at nights.

If you are bombing an area that is densely populated by civilians, and you are fully aware that the bombs that you drop will kill civilians, then you are intentionally killing civilians.
 
You DO murder innocents, you DO murder civilians, you DO break all the laws of human rights, you DO break U.N. resolutions, you DO use illegal weapons, you DO humiliate elderly people at checkpoints, you DO shoot at ambulances, you DO raid homes, you DO kill children on their way to school.......

I have seen many of your crimes with my own eyes, you can deny all you want but that does NOT change the reality.
No, we don't. You can go on and on with it. In the end, there is only one simple truth.
 
If you are bombing an area that is densely populated by civilians, and you are fully aware that the bombs that you drop will kill civilians, then you are intentionally killing civilians.
When we are fully aware that the bombs would kill civilians, which means 100% chance that civilians would die, we don't shoot. But in most of the cases we just can't know if civilians would get hurt from the explosion for sure. It's just not possible to know for sure. We do our best to avoid such incidents by dropping leaflets and calling people who live next to the targeted area and warning them. We can't assure a 0% civilians involvement. We wish we could, but it's just not possible.

Same goes for the US. Do you think they deliberately kill civilians?
 
No, we don't. You can go on and on with it. In the end, there is only one simple truth.

So can you, you can go on and on denying it, that is not going to get you anywhere.

I feel comfortable with my covictions, I can see our own crimes and denounce them, I can also see yours and do the same.

Remain with your convictions, one day the truth is going to hit you hard.
 
When we are fully aware that the bombs would kill civilians, which means 100% chance that civilians would die, we don't shoot. But in most of the cases we just can't know if civilians would get hurt from the explosion for sure. It's just not possible to know for sure. We do our best to avoid such incidents by dropping leaflets and calling people who live next to the targeted area and warning them. We can't assure a 0% civilians involvement. We wish we could, but it's just not possible.

Same goes for the US. Do you think they deliberately kill civilians?

Dropping leaflets for people to go WHERE ???

You told the people in Marjayoun to leave and then you targetted the civilian convoys. You shot at ambulances you bombed refugees who took shelter in U.N. barracks in Qana in 1996... do you want more ??? I can name dozens of war crimes
 
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When we are fully aware that the bombs would kill civilians, which means 100% chance that civilians would die, we don't shoot. But in most of the cases we just can't know if civilians would get hurt from the explosion for sure. It's just not possible to know for sure. We do our best to avoid such incidents by dropping leaflets and calling people who live next to the targeted area and warning them. We can't assure a 0% civilians involvement. We wish we could, but it's just not possible.

When you trap a population of 1.5 million people into 360 sq. km of land and start bombing without allowing anyone to leave and blocking aid, you are deliberately killing civilians.

Same goes for the US. Do you think they deliberately kill civilians?

Yes.
 
When you trap a population of 1.5 million people into 360 sq. km of land and start bombing without allowing anyone to leave and blocking aid, you are deliberately killing civilians.
By accusing Israel of deliberately killing civilians, do you accuse it for shooting even though it knows civilians would die, or do you accuse it for shooting because it knows civilians would die?
 
By accusing Israel of deliberately killing civilians, do you accuse it for shooting even though it knows civilians would die, or do you accuse it for shooting because it knows civilians would die?

Both. It's quite clear that collective punishment is a strategy implemented by the IDF.

But you're not going to address the fact of the matter, are you? In quarantining Gaza and then bombing the hell out of it was it somehow not certain that large numbers of civilians would die?
 
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Dropping leaflets for people to go WHERE ???
Anywhere but the targeted area.
You told the people in Marjayoun to leave and then you targetted the civilian convoys.
Hah, but I already confessed this mistake to you in another thread. You didn't seem to include it in your "YOU DON'T CONFESS YOUR MISTAKES" speech.
 
Both. It's quite clear that collective punishment is a strategy implemented by the IDF.
It's quite clear that you have a certain agenda. One that I could easily compare to a few 'resistance' fighters, but I think I'll skip it.
 
It's quite clear that you have a certain agenda. One that I could easily compare to a few 'resistance' fighters, but I think I'll skip it.

And it's quite clear that you are completely incapable of addressing anything close to resembling facts. You're free to attempt to do so, though; see my edited post above.

EDIT: Or we could talk about the invasion of lebanon, but mira already covered that and you ignored it.
 
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