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Thread: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    I think the impetus for this proposal is the behavior of some Israeli-Arab members of the Knesset during times of friction and/or war between Israel and Palestine. These Israeli-Arab MKs clearly support the forces that are at war with the nation they are citizens of. To be blunt, this is nothing less than open Fifth Column activity.

    Imagine al-Quida sympathizers in Congress praising bin-Laden and passing sensitive Congressional information from D.C. to AQ leaders.

    Many Israelis consider it as treason. But treason during wartime in Israel is a capital crime, and is one of only three capital crimes in Israel that proscribe the death penalty. No one wants that. I think this proposal is/was a legal manuever to deal with such insidious activity within the Knesset while avoiding indictments of treason. It's a complicated issue.

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Its basicly fascism. To make it illegal to be critical of the state or parts of the state.
    This may be true, but we had loyalty oaths during WWII. It may not seem common in our time, but I think history shows it to be more common than one might think.
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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Was this guy fired?

    Were the members of the Israeli press office asked to resign ?
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Looks to me like a way to stifle perfectly legitimate dissent considering

    [A] a one state solution has alot of good arguments going for it but by arguing for such a solution you are arguing against the existence of Israel as a Jewish state

    [B] The establishment of Isreal was, undeniably a disaster for the Arabs

    But as Voltaire once said it is dangerous to be right when those in power are so very wrong
    Seems like a stupid idea to me, pandering to the extreme right in this case.


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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Seems like a stupid idea to me, pandering to the extreme right in this case.
    Actually the extreme right, the right, the center right, the center, and the center left. None of these alignments celebrate the subversive element.

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Israel cheers the IDF for defending it, just like every other nation cheers its own army.
    When it bombed Gaza Israelis knew that it does its best to avoid civilian casualties. We also knew it's unavoidable, as the Hamas terrorists just take them as human shields and launch the rockets from their houses.
    Also, about the journalists not being able to get into the strip, that was because journalists tend to run into the danger zone, and we didn't wish to pull a Russia on them.
    I suppose you've never set foot in Gaza. It is one of the world's most densely populated places. The "human shield" excuse is utter tosh. What do you suppose Hamas fighters are supposed to do? go expose themselves in open fields ?

    The journalists always go to danger zones, they take the risk and many get killed or wounded, but they do their job. The IDF simply prevented them from doing their job. They did however divert them toward Israeli towns and villages hit by rockets. In the book of honest journalism, that is exactly what is qualified as bias.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
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  7. #47
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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    I think the impetus for this proposal is the behavior of some Israeli-Arab members of the Knesset during times of friction and/or war between Israel and Palestine. These Israeli-Arab MKs clearly support the forces that are at war with the nation they are citizens of. To be blunt, this is nothing less than open Fifth Column activity.

    Imagine al-Quida sympathizers in Congress praising bin-Laden and passing sensitive Congressional information from D.C. to AQ leaders.

    Many Israelis consider it as treason. But treason during wartime in Israel is a capital crime, and is one of only three capital crimes in Israel that proscribe the death penalty. No one wants that. I think this proposal is/was a legal manuever to deal with such insidious activity within the Knesset while avoiding indictments of treason. It's a complicated issue.
    Could I ask a couple questions, since I respect your opinion?

    Does the loyalty law confined the the Knesser? What I have read, it does not seem to be, but I have found no real indepth story on this.

    Also, what of the "Nakba Law" that is also a part of this story? What are your feelings on that?

  8. #48
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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This may be true, but we had loyalty oaths during WWII. It may not seem common in our time, but I think history shows it to be more common than one might think.
    Oh I know. The UK and even the US during WW2 were borderline fascist states. Many actions by both were no better than the actual actions of the real fascist states. The US interned the Japanese and the Brits put in place very restrictive laws on everything from free speech to movement and so on.

    My only point is that no nation can claim to be a free and democratic nation if said nation implements such draconian laws even during times of war. You are not a democratic or free nation if you target part of your population with "loyalty" laws or any other law that limits their access to the same freedoms as the majority of the population.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    I suppose you've never set foot in Gaza. It is one of the world's most densely populated places. The "human shield" excuse is utter tosh. What do you suppose Hamas fighters are supposed to do? go expose themselves in open fields ?
    This ain't no excuse to shoot rockets from a person's house. It simply tells Israel "If you're gonna shoot, we'll take down civilians with us."
    I don't expect Hamas to launch rockets from open fields as it'd just be slaughtered easily. That doesn't mean I won't object to them shooting at our civilians while taking hostage their own. That is a double crime against humanity, and I cannot accept it.
    The journalists always go to danger zones, they take the risk and many get killed or wounded, but they do their job. The IDF simply prevented them from doing their job. They did however divert them toward Israeli towns and villages hit by rockets. In the book of honest journalism, that is exactly what is qualified as bias.
    If the journalists were to die, it'd deal a much larger damage to Israel than blocking their entrance.
    Israel did the right thing in not letting them in.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Oh I know. The UK and even the US during WW2 were borderline fascist states. Many actions by both were no better than the actual actions of the real fascist states. The US interned the Japanese and the Brits put in place very restrictive laws on everything from free speech to movement and so on.
    The world would be such a better place without people who use the word 'Fascist' three times per sentence.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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