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Thread: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    FACT: Israel was attacked.
    FACT: Israel has the right to defend its people.
    FACT: Israel tried to avoid civilian casualties.
    Concern grows over Gaza aid

    By Tobias Buck in Jerusalem
    Published: April 21 2009 00:57 | Last updated: April 21 2009 00:57



    The European Commission has raised fresh concerns over Israel’s continuing closure of the Gaza Strip, which it says is preventing European humanitarian aid worth more than €34m from reaching the Palestinian territory.

    According to an internal Commission document sent to EU member states last week, the tight Israeli restrictions on imports of goods and cash into the strip are doing both humanitarian and political damage. The paper points out that the lack of cash weakens western-backed bodies such as the Palestinian Authority, which is now regularly unable to pay salaries. The Islamist Hamas group, which controls the Gaza Strip, has no such problem because it can smuggle in bank notes through the tunnels linking Gaza with Egypt.

    EU diplomats say the aid – fuel for the Gaza power plant and well as cash grants for needy families and civil servants’ salaries – was regularly allowed into the strip prior to the recent Gaza war. They also stress that the support is not intended to support the reconstruction of the war-ravaged strip – the subject of a separate controversy – but constitutes basic humanitarian relief.

    ”We conservatively estimate that €34.2m of such support which should have been delivered to beneficiaries in Gaza since Operation Cast Lead [the recent Israeli offensive in Gaza] started has not been able to be delivered, and instead is sitting in bank accounts gathering interest,” says the report, seen by the Financial Times.

    The paper also bemoans the lack of response from Israeli officials, noting that the Commission wrote formally to the Israeli military seven times over the past year or so. Not once did Brussels receive a reply.
    FT.com
    Please tell me how this is relevant to the three "facts" you have listed.

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    "It was no secret that mistakes have been done in the IDF's handling of the operation, mistakes that led to civilian casualties."

    You've probably read the wrong post.
    Ok, I'm sorry, I did read the wrong post.

    But Apocalypse, what you don't know is that Israel has been using collective punishment as a way to make Palestinians and Lebanese to surrender for decades.

    Don't go as far as wars and invasions, look at the family house demolitions in the beginning of the intifada, just as an example.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
    To understand does not mean to support or to excuse

  3. #93
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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Please tell me how this is relevant to the three "facts" you have listed.
    The blockage on the strip existed for one and only one reason: to prevent Hamas from gaining weapons and arming itself.
    Israel did, however, pass aid and food. Are you trying to deny this? Because I won't source it up till I'd hear a denial. It makes things way sweeter.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    The blockage on the strip existed for one and only one reason: to prevent Hamas from gaining weapons and arming itself.
    Then show us how blocking basic humanitarian aid to Gazans serves this purpose.

    Israel did, however, pass aid and food. Are you trying to deny this? Because I won't source it up till I'd hear a denial. It makes things way sweeter.
    I just provided a source stating that Israel has blocked $34 million in food and aid and this is your response?

    Are you going to site that the Karni crossing was opened for 24 hours? Or that the Rafah crossing was open for 24 hours? How humanitarian of them.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-01-09 at 06:51 PM.

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    Ok, I'm sorry, I did read the wrong post.

    But Apocalypse, what you don't know is that Israel has been using collective punishment as a way to make Palestinians and Lebanese to surrender for decades.

    Don't go as far as wars and invasions, look at the family house demolitions in the beginning of the intifada, just as an example.
    A bad example for your side really, as it was "at the beginning of the intifada".
    House demolitions are done only against illegally built houses. You won't see Israel going around bulldozing people's houses just like that out of the blue. And to keep things balanced, illegally built Jews' houses are also being demolished.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Then show us how blocking basic humanitarian aid to Gazans serves this purpose.



    I just provided a source stating that Israel has blocked $34 million in food and aid and this is your response?
    I did not deny this blockade of alleged food and aid. I merely asked if you deny that Israel does transfer humanitarian aid at all.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    I did not deny this blockade of alleged food and aid.
    If you did not deny it then it would not be "alleged".

    I merely asked if you deny that Israel does transfer humanitarian aid at all.
    See my above edit.

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    A bad example for your side really, as it was "at the beginning of the intifada".
    House demolitions are done only against illegally built houses. You won't see Israel going around bulldozing people's houses just like that out of the blue. And to keep things balanced, illegally built Jews' houses are also being demolished.
    No, I'm not talking about that. When one member of a family was accused of having engaged in attacks against Israel, the family house was bulldozed leaving everyone out in the street.

    I just gave that as an example of collective punishment and that was just the beginning. Terrorising civilians has been a technique that they have been using for decades and bombing civilians is one of them.
    Last edited by Mira; 06-01-09 at 07:01 PM.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
    To understand does not mean to support or to excuse

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If you did not deny it then it would not be "alleged".
    It is always alleged when people are involved. I do not deny it, however. Honestly.
    Are you going to site that the Karni crossing was opened for 24 hours? Or that the Rafah crossing was open for 24 hours? How humanitarian of them.
    There was also some sort of a 'humanitarian' break for every few hours every day. During that time Israel has passed aid and food trucks into the strip. Hamas used that time to come out of its sewers and launch rockets at Israel, knowing it won't strike back.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Israel debates 'loyalty' law

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    No, I'm not talking about that. When one member of a family was accused of having engaged in riots, the family house was bulldozed leaving everyone out in the street.
    Riots? No. Terrorism? Yes.
    The house is only demolished if it's written on the terrorist's name. If it isn't, only the terrorist's part of the house is being destroyed. Israel needs to do something to deter terrorism.
    I just gave that as an example of collective punishment and that was just the beginning. Terrorising civilians has been a technique that they have been using for decades and bombing civilians is one of them.
    And here we go again with the bombing and terrorizing civilians stuff.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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