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Thread: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

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    Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com


    I'm so very glad that they highlight the fact that this guy called 911...

    So awesome that everyone ran or stood around while he cut her head off.

    If I didn't have my gun (fat chance)... I would have beat this guy to death with a ****ing chair, or some other blunt object.. but I SURE as hell wouldn't have stood around and watched him cut her head off.


    I wonder when the first lawsuit will pop up... because the school that won't let students protect themselves cannot provide adequate protections for those who are attacked will be.

    I hope this little Asian girl's family sues the **** out of VT for making her another defenseless little sheep... and letting her get slaughtered.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com


    I'm so very glad that they highlight the fact that this guy called 911...

    So awesome that everyone ran or stood around while he cut her head off.

    If I didn't have my gun (fat chance)... I would have beat this guy to death with a ****ing chair, or some other blunt object.. but I SURE as hell wouldn't have stood around and watched him cut her head off.


    I wonder when the first lawsuit will pop up... because the school that won't let students protect themselves cannot provide adequate protections for those who are attacked will be.

    I hope this little Asian girl's family sues the **** out of VT for making her another defenseless little sheep... and letting her get slaughtered.
    That's sick, what I don't get is how other people let this happen, I don't necessarily want to ever have to take down an assailant ever again, but I sure as hell would never let someone innocent be murdered right in front of me.
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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    How is this the school's fault? How exactly could they have prevented the dude from stabbing her suddenly?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    How is this the school's fault? How exactly could they have prevented the dude from stabbing her suddenly?

    They forbid guns on campus, even for those with carry permits. Works wonderfully doesn't it?


    Cox said he dove behind the counter and called 911 while customers and his manager ran from the coffee shop. At least twice during the call, Cox said, the dispatcher asked him to look around the shop so he could give her more information.

    Each time he looked up, Cox said, Zhu was on top of Yang, who was on the floor. Zhu stared at Yang's face as he cut through her neck, Cox said.

    "It wasn't really an angry face at all," Cox said. "It was just a really blank, determined look."

    By the time police arrived, Zhu was holding the woman's head in his hand, an officer testified.

    "I saw a body lying and I saw a gentleman walking toward me with a head in his hand," testified Nicole Irvine of the Virginia Tech Police Department.

    Irvine said he dropped the head when she ordered him to put his hands in the air.


    Witnesses have told police that Zhu and Yang were drinking coffee together and had not been arguing before the attack.

    Irvine said she found a kitchen knife lying on a table in the cafe and Zhu told her he had knives and a hammer in his backpack.
    Boy, it sure is great that there were no lawfully-carried, privately owned firearms present, since the presence of guns always makes things worse.

    (/irony)

    Apparently there were no testicles present, either.

    G.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    They forbid guns on campus, even for those with carry permits. Works wonderfully doesn't it?

    Boy, it sure is great that there were no lawfully-carried, privately owned firearms present, since the presence of guns always makes things worse.

    (/irony)

    Apparently there were no testicles present, either.

    G.
    So is your argument that anytime anyone is killed in a place where guns are not permitted, it's the fault of the institution that restricted the guns?

    I'm 99.99% sure that even if guns were permitted on campus, this girl would still be dead.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So is your argument that anytime anyone is killed in a place where guns are not permitted, it's the fault of the institution that restricted the guns?
    It is the fault of the scumbag who committed the murder. However, I think in many cases the institution bears some responsibility for denying the most effective self-defense tools to those using it's facilities.

    If, for some reason, a facility forbid me to wear safety goggles, and I suffered an eye injury in a lab accident, I would surely sue them as contributing to my injury by their ignorant policy.

    I'm 99.99% sure that even if guns were permitted on campus, this girl would still be dead.
    It depends. If, as I said, there were no testicles present (metaphorically speaking), then what weapons might have been handy means nothing.

    If I'd been there, unarmed, I can say with assurance I would have grabbed whatever was handy and attacked the nutcase.

    However, a lot of people don't have the confidence I have to engage in hand-to-hand with a guy with a knife; having a pistol and shooting skills could make a big difference in whether they'd intervene. If some law abiding permit holder had been present and armed, the guy might have been shot dead before he inflicted fatal injury on the girl.

    I don't see how you can say you're 99.99% sure the girl would have died anyway. You'd have to be assuming that no one present would be armed (about 1 person in 50 carries a gun), and/or that the shooter would not respond or not respond effectively (this depends on the person, their character and training, and such speculation is difficult).

    Even if we assume a 50/50 chance (if carry permits were allowed there) that someone present was armed, and a 50/50 chance that such a person would respond effectively, then that would have given the girl a 25% chance... which was better than the effectively-zero chance she got.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-31-09 at 12:53 AM.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It is the fault of the scumbag who committed the murder. However, I think in many cases the institution bears some responsibility for denying the most effective self-defense tools to those using it's facilities.
    So here is another scenario for you, the campus allows guns and a criminal goes on a shootting spree. A student fires at the criminal, but hits and kills an innocent person. Both the criminal and innocent person die.

    Is the campus held responsible for allowing guns? Is the student that fired at the criminal? I would be willing to bet in a heartbeat that the family of the innocent person would sue and win.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    The problem with the "pro-gun on campus" crowd is that they always picture the good guys shooting the bad guys, yet they don't even consider that innocent people could be killed by those carrying guns and reacting.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    There are certain places that guns just don't belong. Churches and schools top the list to my mind.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So here is another scenario for you, the campus allows guns and a criminal goes on a shootting spree. A student fires at the criminal, but hits and kills an innocent person. Both the criminal and innocent person die.

    Is the campus held responsible for allowing guns? Is the student that fired at the criminal? I would be willing to bet in a heartbeat that the family of the innocent person would sue and win.
    You might be right. However, there are states with Good Samaritan laws protecting those who go to other's aid, even if their aid goes awry. IMO there needs to be some adjustment of liability laws in this country anyway.

    Lest we forget, there has already been a mass-murder shooting, if I'm not mistaken at V-tech, and the count of dead and injured were quite large. I'd be willing to take the innocent-bystander risk for the sake of stopping the person who is deliberately killing people.

    The problem with the "pro-gun on campus" crowd is that they always picture the good guys shooting the bad guys, yet they don't even consider that innocent people could be killed by those carrying guns and reacting.
    Call me crazy, but I figure someone who wants to kill me is more dangerous than someone who is trying to save me.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-31-09 at 01:01 AM.

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