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Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

Could've, should've, would've. Fact is, you weren't there. I've come around to the pro-gun argument but this is a bad example for the pro-gun crowd. It's not something that could've been avoided. If the campus had a pro-gun policy, then the killer would have lured her somewhere else to do the deed.

Any age is too young to know what to do in this situation, but we're looking at a room with a bunch of 21 year olds and under, most of whom went straight from living with their parents to a college dorm. Expecting them to rush and jump onto the killer when they haven't seen anything like this in their life is a huge expectation, and frankly really apathetic to how bystanders must have felt.

And finally... I respect a college's decision to ban guns on campus. It's their private property so they can do what they want. After the various campuses I worked, studied, and lived at, I would never want to see guns part of the equation. Most of the off hours are spent getting hammered and chasing tail, not to mention the trivial drunk fights that break out between people. Let's throw guns into an immature situation, that'll help!

Campuses have a thing called security which can be called in an instant, but like RightinNYC said, there was no avoiding this outcome.
 
Could've, should've, would've. Fact is, you weren't there.
Fact is, you don't know me. Although her stabbing was not preventable, the decapitation probably was. Watch any beheading video. I reluctantly agree however, that those present were most likely ill-suited to respond instinctively.
 
Fact is, you don't know me. Although her stabbing was not preventable, the decapitation probably was. Watch any beheading video. I reluctantly agree however, that those present were most likely ill-suited to respond instinctively.

I know enough about you to know that you have training, so obviously if you were there, you would have done something.

Notice how I'm not commenting on what I would have done, but am instead thinking about why no one reacted to save the woman. What's done is done.
 
Fact is, you don't know me. Although her stabbing was not preventable, the decapitation probably was. Watch any beheading video. I reluctantly agree however, that those present were most likely ill-suited to respond instinctively.

Glad I read to the end of the thread before replying to your previous post. You are an exceptional person. To suggest that because you would have probably successfully stopped this, that those who did not are cowards is...well, it's not your best moment.
 
Glad I read to the end of the thread before replying to your previous post. You are an exceptional person. To suggest that because you would have probably successfully stopped this, that those who did not are cowards is...well, it's not your best moment.
My bad Redress. Sometimes I forget the setting. This decapitation could not have occurred in Israel in a similar scenario. He would have been shot at the first sign of such an intent.
 
My bad Redress. Sometimes I forget the setting. This decapitation could not have occurred in Israel in a similar scenario. He would have been shot at the first sign of such an intent.

I have been to Israel, and I am sure you are right. Do not take this wrong, but I hope we never end up like Israel though.
 
Could've, should've, would've. Fact is, you weren't there. I've come around to the pro-gun argument but this is a bad example for the pro-gun crowd. It's not something that could've been avoided. If the campus had a pro-gun policy, then the killer would have lured her somewhere else to do the deed.

Any age is too young to know what to do in this situation, but we're looking at a room with a bunch of 21 year olds and under, most of whom went straight from living with their parents to a college dorm. Expecting them to rush and jump onto the killer when they haven't seen anything like this in their life is a huge expectation, and frankly really apathetic to how bystanders must have felt.

And finally... I respect a college's decision to ban guns on campus. It's their private property so they can do what they want. After the various campuses I worked, studied, and lived at, I would never want to see guns part of the equation. Most of the off hours are spent getting hammered and chasing tail, not to mention the trivial drunk fights that break out between people. Let's throw guns into an immature situation, that'll help!

Campuses have a thing called security which can be called in an instant, but like RightinNYC said, there was no avoiding this outcome.

Many college campuses are publicly funded, so it's not really private property.

Anyway, I will state once again, with renewed emphasis, that these people acted like cowards. Make any excuse you like but everyone knows how to fight. Pick up a chair, pick up a fork, use anything at your disposal, but do something; a woman is getting her ****ing head sawed off. I don't think this kind of thing could have happened in the "old days". Something tells me neither one of my grandfathers would have watched this happen. This is just a microcosm amongst American youth. Soft and self-centered.
 
I have been to Israel, and I am sure you are right. Do not take this wrong, but I hope we never end up like Israel though.
You do what you have to do to survive. I personally have no problem with an armed and trained citizenry. Violent crime in Israel is exceedingly low.
 
You do what you have to do to survive. I personally have no problem with an armed and trained citizenry. Violent crime in Israel is exceedingly low.

That is my point I guess. You do what you have to do, and I hope we never have to do what you all have to. I have never before been to a place where armed military people walk the streets till I went to Haifa.
 
Many college campuses are publicly funded, so it's not really private property.

Anyway, I will state once again, with renewed emphasis, that these people acted like cowards. Make any excuse you like but everyone knows how to fight. Pick up a chair, pick up a fork, use anything at your disposal, but do something; a woman is getting her ****ing head sawed off. I don't think this kind of thing could have happened in the "old days". Something tells me neither one of my grandfathers would have watched this happen. This is just a microcosm amongst American youth. Soft and self-centered.

I'm sorry, but I think this is just another case of the "good old days." Truth of the matter is that most people are ******s and will not do things that place themselves in serious danger in order to help others. I'm sure that everyone on DP would have immediately jumped into action, disarmed the attacker, tended to the victim's wounds, and then decapitated and crucified the attacker (to show we mean business!), but in the real world, most people are just going to be concerned about themselves, regardless of age or whether they "have testicles."
 
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I'm sorry, but I think this is just another case of the "good old days."

Times were different, as were the people. It's not totally inconcievable that they - as a general rule - would have acted differently in such a situation. I cannot, for the life of me, picture either of my grandfathers (or any self-respecting man from that generation) standing idly by while something like this happened. The modern social dynamic is one of self-centeredness and sheepish difference. The Great Depression, WWII, Korea....that generation was different.

Truth of the matter is that most people are ******s and will not do things that place themselves in serious danger in order to help others.

I would tend to agree, but mostly in regards to modern American society.

I'm sure that everyone on DP would have immediately jumped into action, disarmed the attacker, tended to the victim's wounds, and then decapitated and crucified the attacker (to show we mean business!), but in the real world, most people are just going to be concerned about themselves, regardless of age or whether they "have testicles."

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know I would have done something. Throw a chair at the bastard and rush his ass. He's a little azn dude...
 
Say that to a family where innocent people died to the "over-reaction" of a gunslinger student trying to take down an assailant.

The innocent death is no more right because it was done by someone trying to stop someone.




So you built a what if scenario, and now you are arguing it like it's valid? please show evidence to back up what you say....


How many died at vt again?
 
Lot's of sheep with no sheepdog - the wolf attacks.

Gun or no gun, I wish I had been there; I would have stopped that f*ck.




Hear hear!!!!



Like i said in another thread, they stood there and let themselves be killed. it's a damn shame.
 
Campuses have a thing called security which can be called in an instant, but like RightinNYC said, there was no avoiding this outcome.




nonsense, this is the attitude that makes sheep. There is always something that could have been done.....


And armed and trained populous on campus for one.

teaching our childeren to overcome the freeze fear response #2


training training training....... there is always something that could have been done.
 
*sigh* while it might not have actually saved her.. it would have given her better chances had one of the people in that building been armed and gone through ccw training / any type of training with a firearm.

Teachers, Staff, or Students... Making the argument that your everyday college kid is just a ****up waiting to happen is another bs argument.

That's like me calling anyone of you liberals a faggot, cause you're a liberal.. It's a broad overstroking generalization that you're making about someone / some people you don't even know.

Whether you like it or not, violent crime in churches and schools has gone up... we've had how many mass murders around the world in schools last year and this year?

Personally, I'd have reached into my backpack, drew my glock 23.. and put a .40 caliber sized hole in the guy's head from close range as soon as I knew what was happening. I'd deal with the fallout of having a gun on campus afterwords.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in gun free zones on schools... I can't say "not anymore" cause.. I've been to schools where people have been shot and stabbed.... Maybe that's a polarization for me against this whole argument "Guns don't belong at school, or church".

*shrug*
 
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"






On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
 
Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com


I'm so very glad that they highlight the fact that this guy called 911...

So awesome that everyone ran or stood around while he cut her head off.

If I didn't have my gun (fat chance)... I would have beat this guy to death with a ****ing chair, or some other blunt object.. but I SURE as hell wouldn't have stood around and watched him cut her head off.


I wonder when the first lawsuit will pop up... because the school that won't let students protect themselves cannot provide adequate protections for those who are attacked will be.

I hope this little Asian girl's family sues the **** out of VT for making her another defenseless little sheep... and letting her get slaughtered.

So, let me get this straight, you are FOR college campuses allowing students to carry guns in their backpacks?

How about at Frat keg parties? Should Frat boys be allowed to come to parties strapped?

I gotta be honest, it's bizarre that you are trying to turn the horrifying details into some sort of gun rights advocacy.

This notion that allowing the public to walk around strapped will make us all safer is one that I hope will never be tested on a large scale. Yes, I know all about the small towns in Texas or wherever that overall stats crime came down when carry laws were loosened. But anybody who thinks that would work in L.A. or NYC is talking out of his ass.
 
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So you built a what if scenario, and now you are arguing it like it's valid? please show evidence to back up what you say....


How many died at vt again?

Me? I was not the one building the "what-if" scenario if the campus had allowed guns there this person would still be alive.

Yes, please, let's talk about facts, there is no proof that if the campus had allowed guns that this girl would still be alive. Let's stick to facts then.
 
So, let me get this straight, you are FOR college campuses allowing students to carry guns in their backpacks?

How about at Frat keg parties? Should Frat boys be allowed to come to parties strapped?

I gotta be honest, it's bizarre that you are trying to turn the horrifying details into some sort of gun rights advocacy.

This notion that allowing the public to walk around strapped will make us all safer is one that I hope will never be tested on a large scale. Yes, I know all about the small towns in Texas or wherever that overall stats crime came down when carry laws were loosened. But anybody who thinks that would work in L.A. or NYC is talking out of his ass.

Show us the facts, otherwise quit talking out of your hoplophobic ass.

And second, I quite often goto parties "strapped" (I carry concealed)... do I drink while at said parties? Nah.

Who says that students are the only ones that could be "strapped"?

What about faculty, and staff?

Oh, right that doesn't fit into your neat little argument of "ZOMG THEY'LL BE SHOOTING EACH OTHER LEFT AND RIGHT LIKE IT'S THE WILD WEST, CAUSE THEY'RE ALL YOUNG AND DUMB AND HIGH ALL THE TIME!!"

Btw, your ilk tried that argument when AZ became a shall issue state...and afaik... pretty much all stats show that cities / states with less restrictive gun control laws tend to have less violent crime than those with restrictive gun laws.

So, you're argument is flawed.
 
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"






On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

Great adendum.
What say you of the big push in Nashville for the right to carry, "In Bars"?
The votes to approve were all very heavily in favor, the bill was passed, then vetoed by the Governor. One stpulation was that he who carries may NOT drink while carrying.
It strikes me as a strange concept, but if you`re going to be around drunk criminals, in a bar, who are carrying, and you want to protect your date, loved one , friends,...etc, It makes a little sense.
I am not strongly for or against the idea, it just strikes me as a hrad sell, a bit strange, in a gun fearing- gun grabbing world, to try to pass a bill called, "The right to carry a concealed weapon in a Bar".
Sober...OK. Just add ONE little drink, and the gun can be the wrong thing to have around. The law does say, "NO DRINKING allowed". Whats your opinion ?

BTW there is at least 1 shoot-out each month in Nashville clubs or bars. It is primarily a cultural phenomenon though. Folks like Packman Jones, now liveing in infamy, after the club shoot-out which resulted in an innocent man being parlyzed for life.
 
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Btw, your ilk tried that argument when AZ became a shall issue state...and afaik... pretty much all stats show that cities / states with less restrictive gun control laws tend to have less violent crime than those with restrictive gun laws.


Note to Stevenb, From Stevenb:

Show us the facts, otherwise quit talking out of your hoplophobic ass.

Please Steven, I'm dying to see you support that. LMFAO!!!

Economists, sociologists, public policy folks have been studying this for years. The notion that guns make big cities safer is the most retarded, asinine position ever put forth by any advocacy group ever in the history of advocacy group.

Conservatives who live in NYC are for draconian gun laws in the city. All big city Police/Sheriff departments are for strict gun laws.

Have you ever been to AZ? There is ONE city that even come close being called a 'big' city--PHOENIX. It's a desert state with small-med. size towns.

What are the guns laws in Phoenix? You need a carry permit. Right? Fine. I am all for that. If you want to carry a concealed weapon, I want the police to know your name and the type of gun you carry, etc. Fair enough?

Or are the cops a bunch of liberals?? Give me a break!

Before you dash off another response, take a look in the mirror Stevenb:

So, you're argument is flawed.

BTW--don't assume that just because I believe college students should not carry concealed weapons I'm anti-gun. I'm for pragmatic and responsible gun laws.
 
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