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Thread: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

  1. #201
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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, the issue to me exactly is how rare is it. If i is as rare as I suspect, and the best data indicates, then using an exceedingly rare event to try and shape policy is silly. Should we change how we do things every single time some one dies?
    We should obey the Constitution.

    The right to bear arms should be respected, and not restricted unless there is an overwhelmingly compelling reason, such as visitors entering jails and prisons and courthouses.

    The burden of proof is actually on your side: prove that law-abiding citizens, such as concealed-carry permit holders, should NOT be allowed to carry on campus. Prove it with something other than just opinion.

    G.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Of course, the real issue on this thread isn't the gun grabbers.

    The real issue is what the hell is wrong with a society that can produce such a monster as that? No, not the guy with the knife. I'm talking about the totally worthless limp-dick that thought yakking on the telephone was going to do anything that girl could appreciate, when all she really wanted right then is a man, or even a woman, so long as her rescuer could stop her head from coming off her neck.

    What happened to America? Are we that much like Europe already?

  3. #203
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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    We should obey the Constitution.

    The right to bear arms should be respected, and not restricted unless there is an overwhelmingly compelling reason, such as visitors entering jails and prisons and courthouses.

    The burden of proof is actually on your side: prove that law-abiding citizens, such as concealed-carry permit holders, should NOT be allowed to carry on campus. Prove it with something other than just opinion.

    G.
    If we are going to frame it as a constitutional issue, all you have to do is convince the supreme court you are right.
    Last edited by Redress; 06-02-09 at 07:56 PM. Reason: spellling

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    If we are going to frame it as a constitutional issue, all you have to do is convince the supreme court you are right.

    Be glad to, if it were feasible. Some day.

    Until that day, I think the words of the Founders about the Second Amendment will suffice:

    Thomas Jefferson: "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither
    inclined or determined to commit crimes.
    Such laws only make things worse for the assaulted and
    better for the assassins;
    they serve to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man
    may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man
    ." (1764 Letter and speech from T.
    Jefferson quoting with approval an essay by Cesare Beccari)

    George Washington: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the
    people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than
    99% of them [guns] by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very
    atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference [crime]. When firearms go, all goes,
    we need them every hour.
    " (Address to 1st session of Congress)

    Thomas Jefferson: "On every occasion...[of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves
    back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates,
    and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it,
    [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed
    ." (June 12 1823, Letter to
    William Johnson)
    Last edited by Goshin; 06-02-09 at 09:07 PM.

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  5. #205
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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Sir, tell that to a young lady named Xin Yang.

    Oh, I'm sorry... you can't. She was decapitated at V-tech.

    G.

    I'm not reading through 21 pages to see if this has been addressed so if it has, my apologies.


    You implied in your OP that if V-Tech allowed guns that Xin Yang would be alive. Did Xin Yang carry a gun while not at school?


    Also, it sounds like he jumped up and attacked her quickly. Even if she had a gun in her purse or wherever it doesn't sound like she had the time to arm herself with a gun and shoot prior being fatally injured.


    :


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Spin it any way you want bud. I've supported my points with facts, and you haven't.

    G.
    So far, Goshin, I can't find ONE LINK TO SOURCES in any of your posts in this thread. I will keep looking though.

  7. #207
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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    I'm not reading through 21 pages to see if this has been addressed so if it has, my apologies.


    You implied in your OP that if V-Tech allowed guns that Xin Yang would be alive. Did Xin Yang carry a gun while not at school?


    Also, it sounds like he jumped up and attacked her quickly. Even if she had a gun in her purse or wherever it doesn't sound like she had the time to arm herself with a gun and shoot prior being fatally injured.


    :
    She was attacked in a cafe amongst other students and decapitated, my issue isn't gun control(he had a knife), my issue is that no one helped her, they stood around and watched it happen.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Want some facts? Studies, analysis, footnotes, links, etc? Here ya go....


    the Kleck Study:
    Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology




    A 1993 Gallup Poll study (hardly a conservative partisan group) found a likely annual rate of defensive gun use (DGU) of 777,153 per year in the US.
    An LA Times 1994 study found an implied national DGU of 3,609,682.




    The Kleck study concluded that there were possibly as many as 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year, many of which involved no shots fired or no one injured, and many of which were not reported:


    These Wikipedia articles are good sources of general information on concealed-carry permits and related issues.
    They include information from both pro and anti perspectives.

    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    John Lott's study is not without controversy, but despite nit-picking about technical proceedures remains significant:



    From an excellent summary page:






    Gun control laws effects on criminals, specifically the Brady law and NICS:
    Actual Effect on Criminals:
    Finally, 11 pages in you post 1 study and 2 wiki pages. Fair enough. Lets have a look.

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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    According to the article one was administered and he was found competent to stand trial.
    That only means he knew the difference between right and wrong... according to a court appointed shrink.

    I would ask for an independent evaluation.

  10. #210
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    Re: Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    She was attacked in a cafe amongst other students and decapitated, my issue isn't gun control(he had a knife), my issue is that no one helped her, they stood around and watched it happen.


    They stood there and let it happen....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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