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Thread: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I think the issue here however is twofold:
    • The manner in which these prisoners were classified. There are terrible discrepancies there.
    • Why did our government ever make the argument for denying them protections under the Geneva Convention in the first place?


    The only real reason the Bush administration made the arguments was to facilitate military tribunals and torture.
    I think the real issue is one fold, and that is that there is no clear definitive law regarding enemy combatants that don't meet all 4 of the requirements for POW status.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I think the real issue is one fold, and that is that there is no clear definitive law regarding enemy combatants that don't meet all 4 of the requirements for POW status.
    Well that's simply where we differ then. It's much bigger than that. Legal definitions aside, we should never have even been in this situation where we are arguing the matter. Regardless of status, we should not have tortured our captives. Period.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    It has been stated and restated clearly by others and it's a fact the 3 listed as being waterboarded were not uniformed soldiers and therefore have no protection under the Geneva Conventions what so ever.
    The Obama and other liberal leftist extremists cries over this are not in any way for some kind of justice even though some will claim it to be so, and some of them might believe it because they believe everything Obama says. The real reason for this BS outrage is to further weaken America and to distract people from what is really going on when Obama says one thing then does another and is never called on it by the lap dog media. Like proposing huge taxes on every American on CO2, using fascist moves to take over and run GM when he said he won't, dictate terms to banks, and make moves to take over the insurance industry and more.
    Watch what he does not what he says. And for God sake act like Americans even though to be a Patriot and support the Constitution now makes you a potential terrorist in the eyes for the sorry excuse for an American Janet (I hate the military) Napolitano and the rest of the Obama crowd.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I don't know that we didn't violate the Geneva Convention.
    Nor do you know if we did violate them.

    We have the CENTCOM ****ing commander saying we violated the Geneva Convention, John McCain said we violated the Geneva Convention, we have federal judges saying we violated the Geneva Convention, the Supreme Court said we violated the Geneva Convention, and we have dozens of governments around the world saying we violated the Geneva Convention.
    So what!? I could reference a slew of equally important people who disagree with them. Are we going to go tit-for-tat with authority figures or are we going to discuss the issue ourselves?

    I'm going to go ahead and take Petraeus' word that we violated the Geneva Convention.
    Okay. I'll just take Rumsfeld's word that we didn't. Isn't differing to authority figures a great way to debate?

    I'll let you speculate as to what he is specifically talking about.
    I don't engage in speculation, nor do I need to, as the article under discussion has all the requisite information needed in order to make an informed conclusion:

    “When we have taken steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions we rightly have been criticized, so as we move forward I think it’s important to again live our values, to live the agreements that we have made in the international justice arena and to practice those,” Gen. Petraeus said on Fox News Friday afternoon.

    Petraeus made the comment in the context of being asked about the Bush administration’s so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques.”


    So, in regards to EIT, Petraeus maintains that we violated the GC, but if one actually references the GC we can see as plain as day that the GC does not apply to anyone who falls under either of the following criteria:

    -Non-uniformed combatants.
    -Combatants that fail to conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

    Since the people in question brazenly and undoubtedly violated BOTH of these GC criteria, we can then conclude that the GC does not apply to them, which brings me back to my original question:

    How can one violate the Geneva Conventions when the Geneva Conventions don't apply to the people in question?
    Last edited by Ethereal; 05-30-09 at 12:13 AM.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    So this makes it right. That entire administration should be in jail.
    Why does it have to be black and white? You skip quite a bit of landscape in the grey.
    Thank you

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    There have been obvious violations of the geneva conventions, but the question is whether these were policies constructed to do so as opposed to unique situtions/scenarios related to individuals and poor judgments.

    In other news, the sun is still at the center of our solar system.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    -that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance (there are limited exceptions to this among countries who observe the 1977 Protocol I);
    Well they sort of have a distinctive sign.

    Thank you

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Well that's simply where we differ then. It's much bigger than that. Legal definitions aside, we should never have even been in this situation where we are arguing the matter. Regardless of status, we should not have tortured our captives. Period.
    Well we are discussing legal definitions here.

    What you are offering up in this post, is opinion. I can respect that, but opinions are not laws.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    There have been obvious violations of the geneva conventions...
    If they're so obvious, then you'll have no trouble telling us what the offense was and what part of the GC said offense violates.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Are there warcrime laws that do not apply to soldiers on the battlefield?

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